Electric Fans

[MORGSTER]

I have a 1989 Wrangler, with all the lift, tire, offroad goodies. It has a 4.2 with borla exhaust, jacobs ignition, etc.. One of my biggest concerns is hot running vehicles. At this point I have only a little increase in heat during the summer on steep grades. Now here's the question. Factual input is requested about replacing the stock fan with an electric unit. I understand the stock one is completely removed, with a minimal power increase but what tempature changes have you had at idle, in traffic, cruising and rock crawling.? Is it worth the $250 plus dollars for the Quadratec "Flex-A-Lite" unit? Thanks for your help.

[This message has been edited by MORGSTER (edited July 29, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MORGSTER (edited July 31, 2001).]

[sillsmack]

I'd be reluctant to replace the mechanical fan with an electric because....

You're 40 miles offpavement working a tough hard rock trail banging about here N there. It's 98 degrees and your engine temp is running abit high as your making about 4 mph and then.....

The electric lets out a howl and dies !!!

HOW YOU GONNA GET BACK TO CIVILIZATION ?!?!?
AAA don't make trail calls!

It's unlikely a mechanical will quit on you. Belt maybe..of course you carry a spare belt right ? The mechanical will keep on keepin on..

I'd recommend an electric aux fan to help out when it is 98 degrees out and your making 4 mph...

[Justicewolf]

Very true, and it is a good idea to have belts with you at all times anyway. (see the how to section for an under seat tray) I have had no cooling problems with the mechanical fan on either of my Jeeps (a "94,4 banger and an "89, 6) Actually runs a little on the cool side especially in the winter when I want the heat!

------------------

Life is a journey, take it.

[Justicewolf]

Plus if it is an 1898 you probaly don't want to take it off-road any way.

------------------

Life is a journey, take it.

[MORGSTER]

GOOD EYES! IT'S TUFF GETTING OLD

[MORGSTER]

Here is an update: I left the stock fan and clutch in place,(for security) and I removed the bug screen.(to increase air flow) Then the add on transmission cooler (also to increase air flow) that was installed in front of the air conditioning, and then the stock radiator. I reinstalled the transmission lines back through the origional radiator cooler, and finally installed a 13 inch (swiched for now)trimline pusher fan just inside the grill. The results were great! Just removing the bug screen and the trans cooler lowered the normal running temp back down to approx 195 degrees, and with the fan running, the temp stayed the same during stop and go traffic and all day idling while rock crawling in the desert.
Note: The transmission temp was the same, even after removing the cooler, it seams it is now cooling through the stock set up better, because the stock set up is! cooling better.
[img]images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: Morgster ]

[jprtroy]

Sounds like the issue has been solved. My story goes; Been there done that. I tried running my CJ-5 with only an electric fan (18"huge) motor heated up right quick in a hurry! Nixxed that idea. Next, mounted a flex fan. It's still in and working fine. My whole cooling issure started from the fan clutch being bad, and not knowing it.
Since then (about 5yrs back) I've rebuilt the engin, added the Mopar multiport fuel injection, a T-18 w/granny, 4:10's (had the ARB in the back, & powerLok up front) 2" body lift, 4" suspension lift, 33" BFG MT's, 3 core radiator, bombproof motor mounts. On board welder (Link-arc, not a fake unit) ans on-board air.
The orignal 2 core radiator that came stock worked great for the first 12yrs I've had her, but sadly it started to not work great, causing the fan clutch (same vintage as radiator) to start to work harder (more) and as a result, it failed. Cooling problem!
After my rebuild, no cooling prob's now.
The use of an electric fan as a secondary cooing fan is a good idea, specially if you have an automatic. Automatics generate an enormous amount of heat and when at trail speeds, theres not much cooling taking effect. If one lives in a colder climate, an auto might be able to cope, but out here in CA. the temps on the trails can reach in the hundreds. Auto's need to be cooled!

Enough rambling.... You all get the picture.

Later...


[addsig]

[Jeepr89]

Morgster: If you want to get it cooler put in a cooler t-stat. I put in a 160 and my 89YJ is like a new animal. And it only costs about ten bucks :-D [addsig]

[dingus]

how hard is it to remove the mechanical fan, shroud, and clutch? do you have to remove the radiator to get them out?[addsig]

[MudderChuck]

The reason I changed to electric, is after being starter for the local mud races for ten years. I noticed that every time a fan got in the mud or water the engine RPM´s fell of radically. Also the mechanical fan would throw mud all over the top of the motor, while the engines with electric fan (on-off switch), usually kept the mud on the lower half of the motor. Making it alot easier to repair and /or find problems (igniton etc.).
The electric fans are kind of pricey, but in the long run, if your often in the deep stuff, they pay.
I found an aluminum body and blade fan, out of an 80-90 model BMW at the junk yard, used on the AC models. A two speed fan (pusher) that has supplied sufficent air for a V-8 and is more than enough for a six. I´ve replaced the bearings once, the fan has been running for 10 years (mud, water, rain snow and whatnot).
For years I kept the mechanical stuffed in a corner of my Jeep, just in case, but it has sense been retired to a corner of the garage (probably never to be seen again).
The only drawbacks I can see to the electric, is they are noisey and maybe if your alternator fails, they will quickly drain the battery.[addsig]

[Tug-n-pull]

Great topic matter. It just seems to be a no brainer and the back and forth views are all well put. If it will give me a bit more HP in my littel 2.5L I am all for it. I am going to call around for a good price asap to get this mod placed into action will let you all know what it changes if anything. Tug[addsig]

[MORGSTER]

Tug:
I purchased the Flex-a-Lite Wrangler2 (#475)
Designed for the YJ with all parts included.
From summitracing.com (800)230-3030
$199.00 plus $7.95 handling, no shipping, no tax

Retail in Q-tec is $259.95 plus $23.99 S&H

It's going on tomorrow. We shall see 8-) [addsig]

[MORGSTER]

Bluebelle:
You have raised more questions, For me, I will solve Monday with a call to Flex-a -Lite tech dept.
I see the difference between the #475 Wrangler direct bolt in and the #150 Black Magic.

Thinner by about 1/2 inch on the Wrangler 475.
Same height and width 18 x 16.
770 more cfm's on the Black Magic 150.
Less amp draw on the Wrangler 475.
Installation, that's what tools are for. (l.o.l.)
Faster rpm Wrangler 475, Slower on the Black Magic 150.
Shallower angle, more blades Wrangler 475, Less noise?
Same price for both. (I went shopping)

I am going to ask for these answers Monday.
My question to Flex-a Lite is. Why did you use a fan with these different stats for a direct fit on the Wrangler?
SIze? Why less cfm's? Amp draw? Noise?
If there's a reason, They should know.

Thanks for the input.
8-) [addsig]

[MORGSTER]

Update:
I have posted this around to see what input I get from fellow Jeepers.

I have tech questions for fellow Rock Crawling Jeepers with Actual, First Hand Knowledge regarding use of electric fans replacing stock clutch style fans.

Flex-a-Lite sells two different models that appear acceptable for use on Wrangler YJ’s 4.2 and 4.0 while replacing stock parts. Added power? Gas mileage? Cooling?

Facts:
*Model #475 Wrangler fan 2
This fan is shown as a direct bolt in unit with 10 blades, 9 amps draw and 2030cfm.
Adjustable thermostat and a/c relay.

*Model #150 Black Magic is similar in size, needs minor bracket customizing to install,
has 8 blades, 13.9 amps draw, and 2800cfm Adjustable thermostat and a/c relay.

Questions:
*What is the difference in 10 shallow blades vs. 8 steeper blades?
*Was there any noise difference between those 10 blades vs. 8 blades?
*Is the difference between 9 amps and 13.9 amps draw enough to cause problems?
*Will 2030 cfm be enough to properly cool vs. 2800 cfm?
*Or is 2800 cfm too much to pull through that radiator efficiently?

*Who out there is using these products?
*What do you think?
*Was there any noticeable power increase?
*Were there any problems?
*If you did it again, would you make any changes?

Please, No opinions, Just facts :-D [addsig]

[MORGSTER]

bluebelle:

I took you advice and changed to the Black Magic #150. (A little customizing was needed to install, same cost, added CFM, stronger motor, better in the long run) I had read about Jeepers using Ford Taurus fans with great success but the power draw was substantially more and for now the Black Max will be fine. Test fit showed clearance of about 1/32 of an inch using the existing radiator mounts. (Not enough for me) Fortunately Jeep engineering created some raised areas where the stock radiator mounted (Probably used for a/c equipped models). I removed those spots, which allowed the radiator to move about 1/2 inch farther forward, now giving me enough clearance. I have a couple of ideas to gain another 1/4 and that should be plenty.

Again Thanks for the input. 8-) [addsig]

[MORGSTER]

Final update:

After all of the information provided by my fellow Jeepers I installed the Flex-a-Lite #150 Black Magic fan as bluebelle suggested. (1989 YJ 4.2) The extra airflow and heavier duty motor looked like the ticket. I also called Flex-a-Lite and picked up the nice aluminum mounting brackets that usually come with the #475 Wrangler 2 which made the install secure and sanitary. The only problem with the #150 is the extra ½ inch depth over the #475 Wrangler 2 that was caused by the larger fan motor. A little customizing was needed where the radiator mounts to the body which gained ¾ inch forward movement of the radiator, giving me the clearance I need. I installed a 160-degree motor thermostat in addition to the adjustable fan thermostat; rock crawl cooling no longer is a problem. The nice part is one simple turn of the adjustment knob and I can select the temperature I want. This weekend the desert rock crawl testing with air temperature up at 90 degrees went off with out a hitch and I’m happy. There was also a noticeable increase in throttle response and hill climbing power on road. It is a little strange having the electric fan run after the motor is off but I’ll get used to that.

Thanks to everyone for the input. 8-) [addsig]

[MORGSTER]

For now, according to the factory gauge, it is set to start at 180 to 190 degrees.
It comes on and the temp stays put, and at night, on the freeway, it never even gets that warm, and yes Blue, it is nice to keep the temp from rising when the motor is off.[addsig]

[MORGSTER]

I wouldn't want to tell you yes without having factual knowledge, but I would suggest calling Flex-a-Lite tech department (800) 851-1510 Don. Hearing it from the source would seem to be a good Idea.

Here is a lot more info on fans, including some temperature tests in one of these posts.

Pirate search "Electric Fans"[addsig]