I would avoid that motor. I understand it is a deal, then re-sell. your power to weight ratio just took a huge sink. Also that motor is a low HP, hi torque motor with little aftermarket support. Depending on what 9" you have, that will be a strength issue, and your front 44 will simply not last. on a stock 6cyl, I still manage to do damage to a built D44. you will also have to run a carb, unless you want to adapt a TBI set up, one from a 7.4L chevy might work, I have no first hand knowledge though. If you just want a v8, then look for a fuel injected GM 5.3, it is more than capabile of producing more power than the caddy mill, in a lot smaller and efficient package.
500 cadillac into tj
- Thread starter BullHead
- Start date
Utah_jeepster
Super Moderator
I know the cad 500 is the best toque monster out there, I have seen several done in rock buggies, and in one 73 chevy pick-up, but as Rooster has said, and so said the owners of the buggies, there is little in support for that motor.
The next step down would be the olds 442 stroked to a 455, yet there again very little after market support.
The next step down would be the olds 442 stroked to a 455, yet there again very little after market support.
redrooster
New member
Just googled real quick and saw one blog saying the caddy is 400hp and 500 ft lbs in stock form with 10:1 compression. Sounds like an interesting project and since you are not rock crawling the Jeep, then go for it.
Random thoughts:
1. Do a compression test on the engine before you get too deep off in the project. Need to make sure it is good to go or either plan for a rebuild.
2. Back check me on this one, but you should be able to get a BOP TH350 auto. It will come as a 2wd, but the tailshaft section unbolts so you can convert it to a 4wd using chevy TH350 shafts/adapters. Internals and shafts are interchangeable on all the TH350's. You could then run an Atlas case to get the driver side drop and ability to handle the HP.
3. The engine probably already has a quadrajet. Try it before you buy the Truck avenger. I used to know a guy that ran a q-jet mounted backward and swore by it.
4. Cooling is going to be a major issue. Keep the timing stock, wrap the headers, get a 190 thermostat and plan on going with dual electric fans. I use dual 10" fans from a Ford Focus that has a built in shroud. The shroud fits perfectly to my CJ radiator and the fan coverage is excellent. I think this is your best choice in fans. Plan on removing the inner fenders and possibly venting the hood.
5. Don't skimp on the motor or transmission mounts. I would make custom ones using 1.5" tubing and poly leaf spring bushings.
6. Don't know what to do about your in tank fuel pump, but odds are it will have to come out.
7. Might be able to get the A/C to work, but it will be expensive.
8. Not sure what to do about the starter. I guess that depends on the transmission.
Random thoughts:
1. Do a compression test on the engine before you get too deep off in the project. Need to make sure it is good to go or either plan for a rebuild.
2. Back check me on this one, but you should be able to get a BOP TH350 auto. It will come as a 2wd, but the tailshaft section unbolts so you can convert it to a 4wd using chevy TH350 shafts/adapters. Internals and shafts are interchangeable on all the TH350's. You could then run an Atlas case to get the driver side drop and ability to handle the HP.
3. The engine probably already has a quadrajet. Try it before you buy the Truck avenger. I used to know a guy that ran a q-jet mounted backward and swore by it.
4. Cooling is going to be a major issue. Keep the timing stock, wrap the headers, get a 190 thermostat and plan on going with dual electric fans. I use dual 10" fans from a Ford Focus that has a built in shroud. The shroud fits perfectly to my CJ radiator and the fan coverage is excellent. I think this is your best choice in fans. Plan on removing the inner fenders and possibly venting the hood.
5. Don't skimp on the motor or transmission mounts. I would make custom ones using 1.5" tubing and poly leaf spring bushings.
6. Don't know what to do about your in tank fuel pump, but odds are it will have to come out.
7. Might be able to get the A/C to work, but it will be expensive.
8. Not sure what to do about the starter. I guess that depends on the transmission.
BullHead
New member
ya, it makes insane power for stock, a mild perfoming 500 makes 450-500hp and 550-650ft.lbs, its crazy, i would go with a ford np435 4 speed, i just love 4 speeds, i hate autos, weight isnt that bad, okay, i have 2 lifted trucks each one weighs 8000lbs, one with 44s and one with 38s, one with 44s has a 383 chev with 450hp, the one with 38s has a sb stroker 414 runing 625hp, my jeep currently weighs in a 4700lbs fully rigged, lets say i add 500lbs, that is still light in my mind, and no big truck could touch me,
now, so you know, i am a cerified welder, customizing the frame, inner fenders, body, mounts, i can do all that in my shop, takes alot of time to get it, just was wondering if there was an easyer way, lol
i already own a truck avenger carb, so no money lost there
i'd like to go with the np205, because they are tuff, cheap, and you can find them anywhere, i've only ever broke 1 of them, parts can be bought in pretty much any town for them
i would of course re-build the motor, nothing much is worse then a broken motor 100s of kms into the bush, hahaha
ya cooling would be something, but seriously, do you even know how much heat comes off a turbo, hahaha, alot, and to keep them running in prime they have to be hot, i've already melted some stuff under the hood because of it haha
60mph air conditioning is the best, haha
now i would run with the current diffs due to alot of money invested in them, lets see how them axels hold up, i havent ever had any issues with them, i love to keep my current setup pinned to the floor, 5000rpm, 9psi of boost, tires spinning like crazy, nothing broken, just underhood stuff melted, haha
i would never waste my time with a gm 5.3, junk, i would rather get a 5.0 h.o. from a ford mustang, those run 7000rpm all day
oh if i could afford it, i would just get the viper motor, but, i'm not rich, haha
now, so you know, i am a cerified welder, customizing the frame, inner fenders, body, mounts, i can do all that in my shop, takes alot of time to get it, just was wondering if there was an easyer way, lol
i already own a truck avenger carb, so no money lost there
i'd like to go with the np205, because they are tuff, cheap, and you can find them anywhere, i've only ever broke 1 of them, parts can be bought in pretty much any town for them
i would of course re-build the motor, nothing much is worse then a broken motor 100s of kms into the bush, hahaha
ya cooling would be something, but seriously, do you even know how much heat comes off a turbo, hahaha, alot, and to keep them running in prime they have to be hot, i've already melted some stuff under the hood because of it haha
60mph air conditioning is the best, haha
now i would run with the current diffs due to alot of money invested in them, lets see how them axels hold up, i havent ever had any issues with them, i love to keep my current setup pinned to the floor, 5000rpm, 9psi of boost, tires spinning like crazy, nothing broken, just underhood stuff melted, haha
i would never waste my time with a gm 5.3, junk, i would rather get a 5.0 h.o. from a ford mustang, those run 7000rpm all day
oh if i could afford it, i would just get the viper motor, but, i'm not rich, haha
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redrooster
New member
Easy on the 5.3's. They have their merits.
I saw the 400 hp and the 500 lb-ft and I had to google this too, it appears, stock the worse years for the 500 were in 76 and made a wopping 190 HP and 360 lbs-ft of torque and the best year being 69 where they made 345 hp and 390 lb-ft of torque the drop off in power started in 1970 where it dropped to 305 and each year after dropping even more. I guess the emission crap killed it.
Now I can't stand Ford motors, I perfer GM, but you would be better putting in the 302 than the 500. Like I mentioned earlier, your axles will not last long with the stock torque numbers of the 500, your power to weight ratio will be a joke, and simply put, there is little aftermarket support for those motors, and old school motor building tricks only will go so far.
If your hell bent on that motor, which is sounds like your not, look to running rockwells, it really is the only way to have a bullit proof drivetrain with those torque numbers
Now I can't stand Ford motors, I perfer GM, but you would be better putting in the 302 than the 500. Like I mentioned earlier, your axles will not last long with the stock torque numbers of the 500, your power to weight ratio will be a joke, and simply put, there is little aftermarket support for those motors, and old school motor building tricks only will go so far.
If your hell bent on that motor, which is sounds like your not, look to running rockwells, it really is the only way to have a bullit proof drivetrain with those torque numbers
BullHead
New member
in 1972, the motors that are dynoed went to new system, from gross power to net, so am guessing meaning hp at the flywheel, and hp at the rear wheels, all motors are good, there are companys out there that only build these motors, you can get anything you want for them, even twin turbo kits to huge blowers, i just simply dont care for all that, a mild performance 500 is all i want, simple, and i dont want to do the 302 over the 500 because, thats 200cid smaller, and sooooooooo many people have done them, lets say try something different, something that peaks my interest
now for the weight, the motor would be 300lbs over the 4.0, the transmission would be 80lbs over, and the t case would be 100lbs over, so 500lbs isnt that bad, so my jeep would weigh at 5300lbs, now, i take my roof rack off and my hard top off, i would be down almost 300lbs right there, lol, weight isnt an issue, as i said, i have 2 big trucks that weigh 8000lbs, so a bb motor in a jeep is still light
now if i was to go to dana 60s, well, i donno, weight would go from 5300lbs, probly to, ummmm 5700?, thats not that bad, considering since i have big bumpers front and rear, winch, roof rack, spare jerry cans, high lift, come-a-long, extra shackles,
if i go with dana 60s, i would go to 40 inch tires and up, am talking with a guy that builds cadillac motors, so we'll see how that goes, this is a next year project, just getting all my info before i do it, so far, i still want the 500 because noone, or very very few have spent the time to do it, and as i said, i dont care for rock crawling, trails and mud are for me
now for the weight, the motor would be 300lbs over the 4.0, the transmission would be 80lbs over, and the t case would be 100lbs over, so 500lbs isnt that bad, so my jeep would weigh at 5300lbs, now, i take my roof rack off and my hard top off, i would be down almost 300lbs right there, lol, weight isnt an issue, as i said, i have 2 big trucks that weigh 8000lbs, so a bb motor in a jeep is still light
now if i was to go to dana 60s, well, i donno, weight would go from 5300lbs, probly to, ummmm 5700?, thats not that bad, considering since i have big bumpers front and rear, winch, roof rack, spare jerry cans, high lift, come-a-long, extra shackles,
if i go with dana 60s, i would go to 40 inch tires and up, am talking with a guy that builds cadillac motors, so we'll see how that goes, this is a next year project, just getting all my info before i do it, so far, i still want the 500 because noone, or very very few have spent the time to do it, and as i said, i dont care for rock crawling, trails and mud are for me
True, but 500 lbs extra over the front axle off road will be the death of the axle or your day out. My school of thought has always been the lighter the better. Are you going to be wheeling this or just a cruiser? if it is a cruiser, the I completely understand the lack of concern for weight, I woud be the same, but if your gonna wheel it, it is really gonna bite you in the arse.
A loaded SRW D60 only weighs about 60-80 lbs more than a similarly equipt full wideth D44, so it will not add that much more there, plus that is un-sprung weight. I am not a mud guy, Actually I hate mud I find little satisfaction in it, but to each his own. Good luck and keep us updated, I think this is gonna be super cool. I have been looking for a Big(ger) block for my hot rod for some time
The 400 poncho is just not cutting it.
A loaded SRW D60 only weighs about 60-80 lbs more than a similarly equipt full wideth D44, so it will not add that much more there, plus that is un-sprung weight. I am not a mud guy, Actually I hate mud I find little satisfaction in it, but to each his own. Good luck and keep us updated, I think this is gonna be super cool. I have been looking for a Big(ger) block for my hot rod for some time
The 400 poncho is just not cutting it.
BullHead
New member
500 over that axel isnt that much, considering that is what they run in full size broncos and full size pickups for fords anyway, and my friends 79 ford 3/4ton had the same running gear, that truck weighed 6700lbs, 400hp, so, hard to tell me otherwise, i'd run them till they broke, then upgraded,
its all for wheeling, as i have said before, am use to wheeling in 8000lb trucks, so weigh isnt an issue in such a small jeep
well in the trails i go down, theres mud to go threw all the time, see the fact is, i just dont want to go bigger then 37 inch tires on the jeep, and with dana 60s, well, i donno, we'll see how it goes
its all for wheeling, as i have said before, am use to wheeling in 8000lb trucks, so weigh isnt an issue in such a small jeep
well in the trails i go down, theres mud to go threw all the time, see the fact is, i just dont want to go bigger then 37 inch tires on the jeep, and with dana 60s, well, i donno, we'll see how it goes
benson_cj7
New member
I thought what i was doing was overkill. how much power do you really want for you jeep. with the money you are talkin about sinkin into this jeep you could build that straight six to do the same thing. and as far as low end torque a straight six is designed to build low end torque. and if you still needed the np435 you could still put that behind the 4.0. really does sound like a sweet project but its gonna cost a grip. ive a got a couple thousand into a stock vortec 5.7 swap. but the thing about owning a jeep is doin what you want with it. possibilities are endless. just show us some pics when its done.
BullHead
New member
i've put alot into it already, and the money i can sink into that 500, makes way more torque then the 6 ever could, take a look at what they make, a stock 500 makes more torque at 1800 then a 5.7 does at 3100, the turbo doesnt and wont pull off the bottom like a big block does, i've already said what i want outta the 500 cad
If you want a challenge with a motor that will throw down some serious numbers, spin Higher RPM's all day long and still has a VERY strong aftermarket suport--WHY aren't you swapping in a 429 SCJ??? especially if you are going to run a Ford drivetrain. a Ford NP435/205 combo will bolt directly onto the back of a 429 with NO modifications to anything, Any 78/79 Bronco or F250/350 from 83-97 with a manual transmission can supply you parts all day long. Obviously if you are considering a 500 weight is not an issue to you. A properly built 429 will drop kick just about ANY GM motor out there to the scrap heap. As long as you get a CJ or SCJ it will have all forged internals with factory H-beam rods a VERY mild build will net you over 500 HP upwards of 600 ft. lbs worth of torque and if you're really feeling froggy you can build contact Jon Kaase and get a Pair of Boss 9 heads and build a motor that EASILY throws down 1000 HP rename your Jeep to Suicide Mission and be done with it.
BullHead
New member
no, thats not gonna work either, i dont what the cj or the scj, that 500 cad still will make more power then that, well so does a blower system, making over 1000hp is easy, noone is gonna change my mind of what i want, i've always wanted to build a 500, plus i got a good running 500 for $100, so really, nothing is gonna make me put that 428 or 429, and if i want high revin power, i would just get a 302 ho from a 90s mustang, and its not about the high reving, the 500 is what a want, and thats pretty much that,
if anyone know of anyone that has done a 500/472 cad into a jeep, i would like to hear what they have to say
Collin the Hen
New member
If you want lowdown torque, why not get a small diesel?
Carleysjeep
New member
Thats funny I don't care who you are! :lol:
I don't understand why Bullhead even posted this thread, it doesn't appear he wants anyones opinion! :???:
BullHead
New member
redrooster
New member
Do a search on pirate4x4.com I saw one thread where a guy put one in a CJ. You've got some challenges ahead, especially in the flywheel and header department.
Itchee96
New member
Is this going to be driven on the street? If so, it will HAVE to be FI to pass inspection, just in case you didnt know.
BullHead
New member
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, no way, going carb, and i'm not in the usa, hahahahahahahahahahaha, and full daily driver if i want
and yes, its a project and a half, welding things is no problem for me
Collin the Hen
New member
And Bullhead laughs in the face of danger. Make way for the awesomeness of Bullhead.
ray:
