[90Xjay]

I've been screaming this from the rooftop for years now.
The Chinese govt is not a friend to the US. But we as a nation keep importing their cheap prodcuts and the profits go back and help make their military stronger.

China sub secretly stalked U.S. fleet

By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 13, 2006

The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier (AFP/Getty Images)

A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.
The surprise encounter highlights China's continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing's communist-ruled military.
The submarine encounter with the USS Kitty Hawk and its accompanying warships also is an embarrassment to the commander of U.S. forces in the Pacific, Adm. William J. Fallon, who is engaged in an ambitious military exchange program with China aimed at improving relations between the two nations' militaries.
Disclosure of the incident comes as Adm. Gary Roughead, commander of the U.S. Navy's Pacific Fleet, is making his first visit to China. The four-star admiral was scheduled to meet senior Chinese military leaders during the weeklong visit, which began over the weekend.
According to the defense officials, the Chinese Song-class diesel-powered attack submarine shadowed the Kitty Hawk undetected and surfaced within five miles of the carrier Oct. 26.
The surfaced submarine was spotted by a routine surveillance flight by one of the carrier group's planes. The Kitty Hawk battle group includes an attack submarine and anti-submarine helicopters that are charged with protecting the warships from submarine attack.
According to the officials, the submarine is equipped with Russian-made wake-homing torpedoes and anti-ship cruise missiles.
The Kitty Hawk and several other warships were deployed in ocean waters near Okinawa at the time, as part of a routine fall deployment program. The officials said Chinese submarines rarely have operated in deep water far from Chinese shores or shadowed U.S. vessels.
A Pacific Command spokesman declined to comment on the incident, saying details were classified.
Pentagon spokesmen also declined to comment.
The incident is a setback for the aggressive U.S.-China military exchange program being promoted by Adm. Fallon, who has made several visits to China in recent months in an attempt to develop closer ties.
However, critics of the program in the Pentagon say China has not reciprocated and continues to deny U.S. military visitors access to key facilities, including a Beijing command center. In contrast, Chinese military visitors have been invited to military exercises and sensitive U.S. facilities.

[southtj]

[lethaldose]

good find i had no idea ... i think the whole world is a big sh*t storm just waiting to flare up

[laxpug19]

Jeep better start makin lawn mowers and video games

[droopey]

Doesn't say much for our radar equipment if it can't detect a diesel powered submarine.

[Dorivin]

America isn't going to be the super power it is now for much longer, I don't even give it 10 years before someone takes the title from America..Hopefully by then i'll be in norway...HURRAY FOR NORWAY, nice big open places where no one lives that I can go off road HURRAY! Stupid Rice burners, its the fault of them..*noodles* LONG LIVE JEEP!

[90Xjay]

Originally Posted by droopey

Doesn't say much for our radar equipment if it can't detect a diesel powered submarine.

The Song-class is the latest attack sub China has to offer. It uses new quiet propeller technology from Russia, our other "friends"

You can read more about it here.
It's a 1999 report..

China's Submarine Forces

The Risk Report
Volume 5 Number 2 (March-April 1999)

China currently possesses an aging force of Romeo- and Ming-class diesel submarines, as well as five nuclear-powered Han-class (SSN) submarines. China deploys only one Xia-class nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine (SSBN), which carries twelve Julang-1 (JL-1) submarine-launched ballistic missiles. The Xia is assumed to be patrolling only in its own regional waters, though theoretically, it would be capable of coming to the U.S. coast to launch its missiles, which could then reach into the western United States.

To modernize its forces, China has turned to both foreign suppliers (Russia) and its own development and production for new, more capable submarines. Improvements sought include increased stealth, more capacity to carry submarine-launched ballistic missiles, enhanced survivability for nuclear weapons, and the ability to project naval force globally.

Submarines

One place China has turned for help improving its submarine force is Russia, from which it has ordered a total of four Kilo-class submarines. The Kilo is a medium-range diesel-powered attack submarine, used primarily for anti-submarine and anti-surface ship warfare. Russia delivered the first Kilo in February 1995, the second in October 1995. Both were the 877EKM model, an export version. Two additional Kilos of a more advanced design were ordered as well. The first arrived in January 1998 and second was sent in late 1998. These Kilo-636 submarines had not previously been exported. They are among the most quiet diesel submarines in the world. Their weapons package includes both wake-homing and wire-guided acoustic homing torpedoes. The Kilo can carry up to 18 torpedoes, which are fired from 6 tubes in its bow. While it does not carry ballistic missiles, the submarine could be upgraded to carry an anti-ship cruise missile system. These Kilo acquisitions, in addition to filling out its force, will help China to improve sonar design and quieting technologies for its own submarines.

China has also been busy constructing several new classes of submarines itself. The first Song-class diesel attack submarine is in sea trials, and two more are under construction. The Song has a quieter propeller and more hydrodynamic hull than the Ming-class submarine it succeeds. In order to enhance their sophistication, these indigenously-produced submarines will incorporate Russian technology. The Song-class submarine is expected to be the first Chinese submarine capable of firing a submerged-launch anti-ship cruise missile.

In addition, China is designing a Type 093 nuclear-powered guided missile submarine (SSGN), the launch of which is expected in the next century. It will supplement China's five existing Han-class nuclear submarines. The type 093 will be a multi-purpose nuclear attack submarine with enhanced quieting, weapons, and sensor systems. It will carry torpedoes, possibly anti-submarine warfare missiles, and a submerged-launch anti-ship cruise missile, probably a follow-on to the C-801.

China's most ambitious project is a new nuclear-fueled submarine that will carry ballistic missiles. The first Project 094 SSBN is expected to enter service early in the next century. This submarine, the largest ever constructed in China, will be a significant improvement over the Xia-class submarine, featuring better quieting, sensor systems, and propulsion. It is likely to carry sixteen Julang-2 (JL-2) ballistic missiles, which are the longer-range follow-on to China's current stock of Julang-1s. China's new SSBN would be able to target the entire United States; however, Chinese timelines from concept to deployment have historically been very long, so it is uncertain when this capability will actually come on line.

Missiles

The importance of these submarine developments lies in the prospect of China projecting its naval force regionally and deploying nuclear missiles. The former capability will enable China to threaten sea lanes or Taiwan; the latter will enhance China's strategic standing and the survivability of its nuclear forces.

China currently relies upon the Julang-1 (JL-1/CSS-N-3) as its sole nuclear-capable submarine-launched ballistic missile. Twelve are deployed on its Xia-class submarine. The JL-1 is a single-warhead, two-stage missile, which has a range of 1700 km and carries a payload of 600 kg. With a diameter of 1.4 m, a weight of 14.7 tons, and a length of 10.7 m, the JL-1 is the first Chinese missile to use only solid fuel. The yield of its warhead is reported to be in the 200-300 kiloton range. China is estimated to have produced at least 50 JL-1s.

China is in the process of developing a follow-on, the Julang-2 (JL-2/CSS-N-4) submarine launched ballistic missile. The JL-2 is reported to be a three-stage solid fuel missile with a range of over 4,000 nautical miles. It is derived from the DF-23 road-mobile, solid-fuel intermediate-range ballistic missile (which was later named the DF-31). China successfully test fired the rocket engine for the missile at the end of 1983 and flight tested the land variant (DF-31) of the missile in May 1995 for the second time. According to one report, the test flight included multiple reentry vehicles, suggesting the missile will carry multiple warheads. It is estimated the warheads will yield 200-300 kilotons each. With these missiles, China will be able, for first time, to target parts of the United States from submarines operating near the Chinese coast.

In another significant development, the recent report of a select committee of the U.S. House of Representatives, chaired by Representative Christopher Cox (the Cox Committee), indicates that China stole secret design information from the Los Alamos National Laboratory in the mid-1980s on the W-88 nuclear warhead that tops the U.S. Trident II submarine-launched ballistic missile. The information is said to include general, but secret information about the warhead's weight, size, explosive power, and configuration. Although China has not developed a weapons system using the W-88 information, U.S. analysts believe it tested a warhead with similar characteristics in the mid-1990s. The stolen information could help China develop a smaller, more mobile, potentially MIRVed nuclear missile and reduce the research and design time necessary to do so. In combination with China's drive to modernize its submarine force, the theft poses a significant threat to U.S. and Asian security.

[droopey]

Thanks 90, It seems we better get our a**es in gear!

[Sparky-Watts]

What's so different from them doing to us what we've done to pretty much every other sea-faring country in the world?

[90Xjay]

Originally Posted by Sparky-Watts

What's so different from them doing to us what we've done to pretty much every other sea-faring country in the world?

Because I seem to feel a little different about American intrest, because I am an American. Its never even been a question for me to feel strongly about. I would never look at that story and say, yeah for the Chinese sub people!

[dropseys]

did you see the stuff about the iranians taking photos of our carriers with a drone plane? More scarey crap!

[Gone&DoneIt]

They don't even need weapons,... if they all stomp at the same time it will level the western world as we know it.

Robin Williams said it best,...
"Pakistan has the bomb, India has the bomb, China has the bomb,... or we think they have the bomb maybe they just all got together and said "boom".

[90Xjay]

Albert Einstein in a letter to Harry S Truman,

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones"

[Snitty]

That Einstein quote is one of my favorites

[Dorivin]

I would, its about time they started to step up and become a nation with some sort of power to keep countries like america from running them over. It'll still be years before they actually become a threat we will have to fear like russia once was...But Can't blame the chinese, I mean americans as a whole are arrogant and cocky, so america does need to be rattled. If they do attack oh well not my problem, I tried to join the arm forces and the just turned me around and said no because of Acid Reflux...

[90Xjay]

Originally Posted by Dorivin

I would, its about time they started to step up and become a nation with some sort of power to keep countries like america from running them over. It'll still be years before they actually become a threat we will have to fear like russia once was...But Can't blame the chinese, I mean americans as a whole are arrogant and cocky, so america does need to be rattled. If they do attack oh well not my problem, I tried to join the arm forces and the just turned me around and said no because of Acid Reflux...

What can you say to that well thought out post?

[droopey]

Originally Posted by Dorivin

I would, its about time they started to step up and become a nation with some sort of power to keep countries like america from running them over. It'll still be years before they actually become a threat we will have to fear like russia once was...But Can't blame the chinese, I mean americans as a whole are arrogant and cocky, so america does need to be rattled. If they do attack oh well not my problem, I tried to join the arm forces and the just turned me around and said no because of Acid Reflux...

Amen Dorivin, That's how I feel they wouldn't let me In because I was born missing a pectoral muscle.

[TwistedCopper]

Originally Posted by Dorivin

I would, its about time they started to step up and become a nation with some sort of power to keep countries like america from running them over. It'll still be years before they actually become a threat we will have to fear like russia once was...But Can't blame the chinese, I mean americans as a whole are arrogant and cocky, so america does need to be rattled. If they do attack oh well not my problem, I tried to join the arm forces and the just turned me around and said no because of Acid Reflux...

Originally Posted by Dorivin

America isn't going to be the super power it is now for much longer, I don't even give it 10 years before someone takes the title from America..Hopefully by then i'll be in norway...HURRAY FOR NORWAY

Put the Kool Aid down and back away from the keyboard J/K

No seriously though, your comments reflect your resentment for being turned down by the US military. Might I ask why you wanted to enlist in the first place? I ask this because you don't seem to agree much with what they do...

Originally Posted by droopey

Amen Dorivin, That's how I feel they wouldn't let me In because I was born missing a pectoral muscle.

They didn't take you because of a helath condidtion. That must be difficult and disappointing, but I ask you as I did Dorivan... why did you want to join up?


How can you guys justify throwing up you hands and showing apathy to the US being attacked because they were looking out for both their and your best interest? I don't get it.

[Wrangl3r93]

I just turned 18 and i'm just now opening my eyes to politics and world affairs and what i see honestly scares me. What we all keep putting off is alot closer than we think it is. Like when i played football, we all lived inside our own little protective bubbles telling ourselves we weren't gonna get hurt. I've torn every ligament, the cartilage, miniscus disk, and cracked the bone in my left knee over a 2 year span. That really opened my eyes to something bad can and will happen to you when you least expect it. Americans are in their protective bubbles looking out at the world thinking we won't get hurt. Let me tell you it sure does suck when you're laying there not able to move realizing that it's not someone else's scream of pain you heard. Ignoring china's threat is about equivalent to walking out on the football field wearing no pads and insulting the other team's moms.

[TwistedCopper]

Originally Posted by red93

Ignoring china's threat is about equivalent to walking out on the football field wearing no pads and insulting the other team's moms.

You're a pretty insightful 18 yr old.

We ignored Al Quaida before 9/11, and they are merely pests compared to China and North Korea.