shifting

[Noli]

I was wondering if anyone had an opinion on this...I'm too afraid to try it. Anyway, my brother once told me that I shift too early, and that I should wait until my motor winds up really high, then shift. Okay, so I started doing this, and I'm much better now, and I think that trick really does work. I have a straight six, and when I first started driving I could hardly beat a metro at a green light take-off. I can actually harness my car's power a little better now (take on say...taurus wagon at green light). However, and this is really my question here, he also said that there is a point at which you can shift your car without actually putting in your clutch, that there is like a very small window of opportunity where you could just pop it into the next gear. He said he had a friend in college who drove a jeep, and he did it all the time. Can anyone actually do this? Just wondering.[addsig]

[jsharifi]

It would be impossible to get going in first or reverse, but yes you can do it. I sincerely doubt that its good for the clutch or tranny though.[addsig]

[osito129]

Yes this is possible, and no it won't harm your clutch or tranny, IF!! you do it right. You have to match your RPM's. Say 50 mph is 3000 RPM's in forth and 2500 RPM's in fifth you would have to be quick or just rev the engine to match those RPM's. My taught me this when I first got my drivers permit and I used to **** my mom off by doing it in her precious Rodeo.[addsig]

[jps4jeep]

Here is a tip if you want to start doing this, Next time you come to a stop light of stop sign, instead of pushing in your clutch and removing the tranny from gear, just gently remove the tranny from gear with out pushing in the clutch. Should slide out of gear like butter. Eventually you will learn the speeds at which you can accelerate and go from gear to gear.

I shift all the time with out using my clutch on my bike (especially when racing, legally at the tack that is.) When I am just riding around with only one hand, the bike shifts better with out the clutch![addsig]

[pinaplebob]

I've shifted all three of my stick shift cars without the clutch. It may sounds a little weird, but it is not hurting anything. It took me a while to figure it out, but eventually It started working. I haven't tried shifting my xj without a clutch, as it already is hard to shift even with the clutch.

later
pinaplebob[addsig]

[jeepmaster]

dude thats wierd, my friend and i were just talkin about this today... you just have to know the synchro points (the RPM the synchros adjust the RPM's to during the shift) be careful[addsig]

[jprtroy]

18 wheelers have been doing it for years now. I've done a few times now in my truck (6sp) it is way weird, your fighting your instinct to push the clutch before. I guess if ya do it all the time, you'll eventually learn the sounds & speedes it works at.
[addsig]

[bigTlilODD]

I did this all the time on my motorcycle.

The simplest way to put it is, that the motor rpms must match the tranny rpms. That point is GENERALLY just as you let off the gas. The trick is to shift as fast as you can! This will not harm your tranny in anyway, if done correctly. If not done right, you will here me on my cb's pa laughing at you and saying the classic, "Grind it til it fits"

I actually had to do this for about 5 miles of suface street driving, because my clutch was out. We push started it at every light, the clutchless shifted when we had to.

As far as shifting too early. I don't shift til the motor sounds right. Last time I checked that's just over 3000 I think. The shift light on your dash, tells you to shift at about 2400. Talk about wrecking your motor! Some people don't understand that these smaller engines like higher RPM's

edited by: bigTlilODD, Apr 23, 2003 - 02:35 PM[addsig]

[dingus]

ah, yes... the memories of driving stick. i used to pop my crx (civic) into gear without the clutch...

to figure out your shift points, when you're rolling, just have a decent firm grip on the shifter, and put just a SLIGHT pressure on it towards where the gear would be, then rev the motor up and the shifter will suck back and it will glide into gear at the right RPM...[addsig]

[Joopin]

Oh man I gotta try this... I heard of this before but forgot about it til now... as for shifing at a higher RPM, I was just telling my brother the same thing when I was teaching him how to drive stick. He was shifting so low that the jeep was vibrating cause he was in too high of gear! Yeah I got ****ed and told him not to baby it! Hammer down on the pedal and shift hard and fast, you will get MUCH better performance out of any auto with a man. trans.... I had an 86 Saab before I got my jeep and I beat the living daylights out of it... That thing would be at its best shifting at 4500-5000 RPMs believe it or not. I don't know why but that was the only car I have ever driven that ASKED for a such a beating. But is still going for the guy I sold it to with 260,000 miles on it. I wouldn't suggest shifting your jeep at that high of an RPM but it will take more abuse than generally expected.
Now that I read this post I'm going to have to try shifting without the clutch on the way to work tomorrow... I should probably leave earlier than usuall for extra practice time!![addsig]

[dingus]

heh, yeah those 4-bangers LOVE to be revved up. i shifted my CRX at 5500+ rpm's! [addsig]

[ROade]

Any1 know what redline on my '82 258 would be?
:-? [addsig]

[Snitty]

its strange that this topic came up... last night in bed.. i was thinking of posting and asking what rpm everyone shifts at.. just out of curiosity... obviously, the 4 cyls will require a higher rpm... I shift my 6 cyl at about 2200- 3500 in the city... and up to 3000 on the highway... so... everyone else... where do you all shift at?

another thing... remember... most of us have BRASS synchronizers... if you are not "speed-shifting" (no clutch) at the right rpm... you are putting a lot of pressure on that soft metal... you are using that metal contact as a clutch to slow your motor down to the right speed... when you have the clutch in... the synchro is only moving transmission shafts to the right speed, which is a lot easier on the synchros... to all of you with upgraded trannies... go for it... it can even be fun, and you can show people something they never thought possible... but the rest with AX-poopies (just like i have), especially those of you who haven't made sure you have the right gear oil... BE CAREFUL, brass is a soft metal[addsig]

[jps4jeep]

In my YJ, straight 6, 5 spd, 2000-2500 rpm's city, on the highway I like to let the engine rev up to about 3500-4200 rpms. Hit redline a number of times.
On my Honda I can redline that sucka @ 14000 rpms. It is a crotch rocket though. My old HD only redlined @ 6000 rpms

Johnny[addsig]

[Alaskan_Jeeper]

So ok here is the scoop. First of all it's called floating the gears. And you can do it at not only high rpm's but almost any if you time it right. I have been in the trucking industry for over 20yrs and, (This is the part were you go ya right..) I don't belive in not using your clutch. And as for the saying; it doesn't hurt anything, I would sugest you pull your gear box plug and put a small magnet in the oil and see just how much metal you do come out with. I think you would be suprised. Now this is not saying you can't do it, or that it can't be done.. But it is not good for your rig..

Just some old advice from a old trucker.

OlllllO 8-)
Walking the dog
Kicking the cat
Driving my jeep is were it's at... Whoop Whoop Jeepin up....[addsig]

[L33TJ33P]

I started driving a standard at 12. I wouldn't suggest Clutchless except in emergencies. E.G. Clutch goes out and you are trying to get to the repair shop. When to shift is pretty easy. FEEL your ride. If you try to use your Tach, you are going to grind. FEEL your ride. If you train yourself to feel your ride then you will know when to shift. Here is a hint: When the "Shift Light" comes on it is time to shift, clutchless or otherwise. To test this FEEL your ride when the "shift light" comes on, the Tranny and Engine match RPMs, Gun it without shifting and notice the "shift light" turns back off until they match again.

Alaskan, from a little 4-wheeler that grew up in a trucker family, I completely agree with you. [addsig]

[jeepin_madness]

First off comparing trannies in a big truck to our Jeeps is like comparing Apples to Oranges. Yes shifting is the same concept but we are talking sync. trans in the Jeep to non sync. trans in the truck. That is why double clutching is done in a big truck. You let off the clutch and push it back in to resync. the trans. It is much easier to shift without clutching with a non sync. tranny, done it plenty of times myself. Seeing all the time it being said that our stock Jeep trannies are weak, I don't think I would risk it unless an upgrade was made[addsig]

[Noli]

Well, I've really been paying attention to RPMs the past few days. It looks like I'm shifting at about 2000, a little over. This is when my motor sounds ready (had to turn down the music), and when my jeep likes to shift. You know, people are always talking about the little shift ready light, but I've never had any problems, b/c I think mine is pretty much on target...by this I mean I never really see it come on unless I'm not shifting in time. The little light agrees w/ me about shifting time. Although, I do like the idea of putting a sticker over it, so that it lights up. I have a dead bear sticker I think would be really funny to put over it. Prob. too distracting, though. Okay, obviosuly I'm obsessing about my car, so I'm gonna stop...but what a great bunch of fellow jeepers to have group therapy w/! [addsig]

[bigTlilODD]

Here is a hint: When the "Shift Light" comes on it is time to shift, clutchless or otherwise.

You haven't been in my Jeep. That light comes on WAY TOO EARLY! I was shifting more than an 18 wheeler. I'd go through to 5th gear before I got to 35mph! LOL[addsig]

[bluebelle]

Correct me if i'm wrong, but from what I’ve observed, the manifold vacuum signals the shift light. Try this: when the light comes on, throttle back a tad until the light goes out, then creep the throttle up slowly gaining rpm - just enough to gain rpm with little vacuum increase.

You’ll see that the light will come on at different rpms. It’s reading the load on the motor, which is derived from the perceived effort the engine, is working against which is predicated by the vacuum.

Check that out. If you're seeing the light way early in the low rpms, chances are that you're opening that throttle too soon. It’s not a drag car.

Let me know what your rig does.

blue
[addsig]