'92 Cherokee - Death Wobble Won't Go Away....

[cmbraith]

In the summer of '09 I put a 3" inch lift on my cherokee. I know better now, but I kind of did a "bargain lift" I bought new shocks, and coil springs for the front, and extension blocks for the leaf springs in the back.

Immediately after I finished, I noticed a slight wobble in the front axle. When I sped up, and hit a bump, it would go crazy.... it felt like the axle was gonna come out from under my Jeep. Typical death wobble.

So, then began my attempts to fix it.

I got it aligned, and the tires balanced - it still wobbled.
I replaced the steering stabilizer - it still wobbled.
I bought an adjustable track bar, and got it aligned - it still wobbled.
I replaced the worn out control arm bushings, and got it aligned again - and it still wobbles.

I took it to the local 4x4 shop and spoke to the guy there - he told me that a lot of times the caster angle is incorrect when you use stock control arms on a lifted vehicle. So the second time I got it aligned i took it to a place that specializes in 4x4 alignments, and he said I should be just fine.

So, basically, I don't know what's going on. I have been told several times that the tie rods can be to blame for death wobble. So, I got down under the Jeep and had someone turn the wheel from side to side, and looked for anything to be loose. I didn't see anything unusual, but than again I'm not sure I know what to look for. The tie rod ends all looked tight, and there was no slipping, or play in any of them. The pitman arm looked the same. What should I be looking for? How can I tell if they need to be replaced?

Also, the tires are beginning to be domed on the edges.... not very badly though. It's mainly from the several times that began to wobble while I was driving. It only wobbles when I'm going +40, and goes away when I slow down to 35. It also tends to do it less when I'm in 4WD.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!

 

[cmbraith]

I'm also wondering if worn ball joints would cause this, also, my sway bar does not have the extension pieces and it was difficult to put back on after the lift, would that be a factor?

 

[DangsWk]

wore ball joint can cause the issue but if you have wider than 8 inch wheels or a drop pittman arm can cause the problem had a 2000 xj and had 16x10 wheels bought new stell wheels and they were a 15x8 and did some small up grades but no more death wobble!!!!! might try that!!!

 

[pbudzy]

I have it too, but I beleive mine to be tires and a missing sway bar...and a redneck lift 4" spacres on top of the coils and 4" shackle lift in the rear..its ugly and imma drop it back down change the tires and get a swaybar and see if it fixes it.

 

[cmbraith]

My ball joints are fine, the wheel bearings and hubs are fine... I just bought new rotors today because the ones I have on are warped. At first I thought it was the wheel bearings making a noise while driving, but it was the rotors.... So, I'll put those on and see if it makes a difference. I heard that warped rotors will do it.

 

[Carolina_Cherokee93]

I have the exact same issue with my 93 xj. My "death wobble" starts when I am pushing over 70mph, and it is scary as hell. I took it to my regular maintenance shop, and they told me that my tie rods needed to be replaced at a body shop. I figure with my trusty Haynes, Ill figure it myself. I haven't tackled the project yet though, and now that I think about it, a warped rotor may be the culprit. Mostly because when the wobble hits on the highway, I will break down to around 60mph, and the wobble will stop, I guess as the discs grip it straightens out the shaking?

Whats the best way to tell if your tie rods are bad?

Also, I have an older skyjacker 3" lift. What are some potential failings of an older kit? Any help out there?

 

[pbudzy]

tie rods lift the vehicle off the ground then shake the wheel left and right if it moves a bit you have bad tie rods...

my death wobble went away then came back...i took off my rims and got some good tires and balance then found out my rotors where full of mud (the vent holes)...cleaned em out went down the road and no wobble...came home parked it feeling great went to go to dinner tonight and the death wobble at 45...what the heck man....drove to town death wobble at 35 then at 55 then at 45 then at 32...wth is going on here...not tires not rotors not stabilizer bar....maybe its this redneck lift they put on.... gonna drop it back down tomorrow and I will update.

 

[Carolina_Cherokee93]

I was at work thinking about our problem last night, maybe its the power steering pump? Have either you pbudzy or cmbraith replaced your ps pump, I assume like mine, yours is stock...?

cheers
CC93

 

[DangsWk]

Check your track bar where it bolts to the frame ball joint could be bad those 3 inch lifts are notorius for making xjs have a death wobble lot of times it has to do with wheel size if u have a 10 inch wide wheel thats ur prob start at the cheapest place first have some one lay under ur jeep and turn the wheel from side to side and se if anything has any play and just go from there seriously dought its from ur brakes if it was it would only do it when u put on brakes not just randomly going down the road!!!

 

[pbudzy]

Well, lets start by saying I found PART of my problem the guy I bought the jeep from NEVER did brakes and the rivets on the rear almost made it threw the drum...lol...alsi i found he liked to mud and not clean as in all the vent holes on both rotors were full of concreted mud....cleaned em out and did brakes front and rear....wobble gone ...then wobble back out of the blue ....then gone to 55 then back then gone til 35 thern back....crap I dunno anymore....tightened everything sometimes I can drive and no probs then sometimes death wobble from heck....My P/S has never worked since I got this thing....that can give a death wobble?????:idea:

 

[cmbraith]

Carolina - I have not replaced my p/s pump. It's not showing any signs of being worn out (doesn't make noise when i turn the wheel, never gives out)

I replaced my rotors, and still have the death wobble. I don't think it will ever go away...

Could it be that I need a drop pitman arm? All the tie rods are tight, I re-checked them last night... The only other thing it could be is the tires... I just don't see how. They've been balanced, and got an alignment on 3 different occasions! Stupid Jeep!

 

[cmbraith]

If I were to get new tires, what size would be the best to reduce the chance of DW? I have the stock 15 inch rims.

 

[SteelHeadz]

The size of the tire will only vary on the frequency of the wobble along with the intensity when it occurs. The wobble itself will or may occur on a different speed if you change the diameter size of the tire but will not go away until you have isolated the cause for the wobble. A perfectly round and new set of tires will have variations of rubber consistency around its structural carcass, therefore it will sometimes have areas in which is known to be "soft spots" within the contact surface of the tire. This soft spot can also contribute to a vibration but not nescesarily cause the wobble. After you verify the wheel balance, alignment, suspension and steering components to be sound, try rotating the tires around and see if it makes a difference in character when it occurs and when it stops. If it does, find a pair of tires that has the least bad habit and mount them in front. There are tire dealers out there that has an RFV(Radial Force Variation) machines that can test the tires for soft spots and then some if you wish to go that route.

 

[Carolina_Cherokee93]

^ been waiting for that post...

ok, so you seem to think its more of an issue with the tires, and not so much a suspension issue? Also, "and see if it makes a difference in character when it occurs and when it stops." By character, do you mean the circularity of the tire? Or something else.

Also, I realized that the DW comes around after a bump in the road, ie: driving over a bridge or some irregularity in the pavement, so I am thinking the p/s pump idea is probably a dud.

 

[SteelHeadz]

Im not saying that it's NOT a suspension issue at all. I'm simply stating that reducing the tire size doesn't fix the problem overall if the suspension and or steering has questionable setting or specifications. The tires plays a big role in the wobble as it is the first contact between the pavement and the suspension and steering components. The transfer of road inputs will vary depending on the type, size and rating of the tire. When i stated "difference in character", i meant, does the wobble occur at the same speed as before?, same road input?, same characteristics as before the tires were rotated?. Process of elimination in this case would be a hard to rule out all of the possibilities at hand without experiment to isolate the cause.

 

[cmbraith]

After every suspension/steering piece I replace the wobble has decreased in frequency, and also in character of occurence. i.e., Before, it would wobble almost every time I hit a bump, and was going <40 MPH. After I replaced the worn control arm bushings, and got an alignment it has stopped wobbling after hitting bumps and now just does it sporadically. The speed is the only thing that has remained constant. It has always wobbled at the same speed.
Curiously enough, I replaced my extremely warped rotors, and the last time it wobbled was when I put on the brakes coming off of the freeway. ??? I think I am isolating the cause, and something crazy happens that makes me question everything.
I checked the steering gear box today, it was working great, and was attached tightly to the car itself. The link to the pitman arm was tight. I checked all the U-Joints too, look good. All the tie rods, and steering knuckles are sound, the control arms are tight with new bushings, the caster angle is correct, the toe in is correct, the steering stabilizer is new, the track bar is new, the steering stabilizer is new.... so, I think it's the tires.... I drove around on them for a long time after putting the lift on... It's been wobbling since last July, and it's taken its toll on the tires I think.... So, sooner or later, I will replace them (crap... there goes another 400 bucks) and hopefully that solves it. The things I've replaced were all worn out...so they most likely contributed to the DW and now that they are all fixed, the tires have had the crap beat out of them. Good luck to everyone else trying to fix DW, you're gonna need it.

If I ever lift a vehicle again (which, honestly, I probably will) I'm getting a kit that includes quality suspension/steering pieces. Never putting on a budget lift again. It throws the geometry of the vehicles steering and suspension off, and causes a hell of a lot of hassles. Thanks for all the posts everyone!

 

[brak]

i did a budget life on an 01 xj i had. i had bad death wobble afterwards. i did a 3in lift. 3in rustys springs in front, s10 second leaf and a tiny booster into the stock spring pack. i found two issues that seems to be causing the DW, the track bolt on the axle side seemed too small for the hole. it seems it wallowed the hole out and made it bigger. i put a bigger bolt that completely filled the hole tightly (giggity). that helped, but the DW was still there. i finally replaced my lower control arms with adjustable ones, and that fixed it.

 

[superj]

maybe the front shocks need to be heavier duty with the bigger tires? the only time i have ever had death wobble was on my commanche. a new steering stabilizer stopped it. i just put a 3" rough country series 2 lift with a 2" spacer lift and still no death wobble. i have brand new 31" goodyear wranglers with black steel d rims, the whole deal within the last month almost as i bought hte jeep in february. i have no wobble and my lift came with new shocks. the steering stabilizer is the only old shock left on the vehicle now. everything else is new, even almost the whole brake system as i have a brake problem

 

[pbudzy]

GOT RID OF MY DW....took the redneck lift off and now it drives like a dream.

 

[Carolina_Cherokee93]

Nice. Think you will lift it again?