Imput on cat back systems, please

M

Megamole

New member
I am looking into cat back exhaust systems for my 89 Wrangler 4.2l I recently went wheeling for the first time at Paragon Adventure Park, got me addicted to wheeling! The problem was the guy in front of me knocked a large rock lose on a hill climb and it wedge under my muffler cracking the pipe, pulling it off the cat, and tearing the pipe at the hangers.

I have only seen 3 systems listed for the 4.2. Pace Setter $177, Borla $380, 4wd $113.
If anyone has experience with any of the above sound off on your oppinion of sound, power increase, and ground clearance.

Also since the all wranlgers 87-95 have the same basic body, can I install a Gibson unit $260 for a 91 or newer. They claim to give more low/ midrange power. I know they are made for the 4.0, but is there really any difference in the exhaust tubing after the cat? Would it hurt my engine? Anyone tried it?
 

buy a series super 40 flowmaster and have an aluminized tailpipe bent.Its a lot cheaper and after almost 60 years of hotrodding,nothing,absolutely nothing beats flowmasters for power and mileage + big saving over "catbacks"
 
I don't know about Flowmaster, but I second the idea of buying a muffler and gettting a shop to bend the rest. I've never used a catback "system" on any of my vehicles and in each case I've saved tons by buying peices and having an exhaust shop custom the rest.

Another thing to think about is future replacement due to trail damage. Do you want to rebuy a whole catback system or just hit the local shop for a new pipe?

-X
 
I put a 40 series 2 chamber flowmaster on mine and had 3" pipe ran from the muffler back. Has a deep rumble sound to it. I left the stock cat and exhaust before the muffler on there.
 

Thats why I am going with a series super 40 for my Cherokee.I have used them on everything including luxery cars and they work!Just helped my pal with his 05 3/4 ton Hemi powered Dodge truck.First he tried a catback...no help,then a supermax muffler,same deal.......I hammered him until he installed an series 40 and he got an 4 MPG increase.Flowmasters out perform anything Ive seen in over 50 years of being a motorhead!The head design engineer was designing music instruments,my Calif.pals tell me,and went to designing mufflers as its pressure in and out,just like a cello !
 
after the cat and any accompaning probes or test sensors,how could it hurt?Getting rid of the pressure is the main deal.QUESTION FOR ANYONE: I have looked at several 4.0 in Cherokees and every single one has an severe restriction just downstream of the header? There are no issues with clearance,so why are these pipes so bent in?If they needed back pressure,surely the Engineers would have come up with something better that the ridculous looking hammered mess?I used to have some contact with Chrysler Engineering,but,years ago,I lost touch or I would try to contact them directly.ANYBODY??????Thanks
 
Well, if its is in fact for back pressure, I would imagine its cheaper to add in a small dented up pipe than it is some kind of device to do the same thing.
 

i have a slightly different outlook on the flowmaster pieces.

are they better than stock ....hell yeah
do they sound good....hell yeah
are they the best flowing full size muffler out there...not even close!

time and again dyno and track results have proven that the Flowmaster catback on v8 camaro/firebirds is one of the most restrictive aftermarket catbacks on the market.

it's better then the stock setup...both sound and flow...but companies like dynomax, hooker, borla and magnaflow totally blow it out of the water.

i've seen it time and again that installing a muffler bypass (cutout) before the flowmaster shows 8-10hp increases over the muffler. while a setup like the magnaflow shows only 3-4hp drop through the muffler.

if i'm gonna spend $400 on an exhaust system...i want my 10-15hp...not 5-7hp....for the same price.

mufflers like the dynomax ultra-flow or the magnaflow 4x9 straight through design will yield the most gains, with the least sound problems. i know the MF units quieted my nasty v8 down.




as for the pipe restrictions. it may not neccessarily be for obvious ground clearance, but companies work hard to get all the underbody items tucked up into the frame rails. the less that hangs down the more asthetically pleasing it is, as well as the obvious...less likely to get damaged.

i doubt it's for backpressure.
backpressure needed for hp is somewhat of an urban myth.
 
I looked into buying a flowmaster or other muffler and having Midas or Miennikee bent up a 2.5" pipe. It would cost the same amount as buying a pacesetter system. If they bend up the pipe then then would install it as well since they have to weld on the hangers, cost was like $150 for the pipe, bending and install plus the price of a muffler.:???: I haven't found a private exhaust company in the area to do the work cheeper. I also called the Jeep dealer to see if the 4.0 exhaust would work they said "yeah same pipe different part number." So it looks like it will be a Gibson cat back for about $50 more than the alternatives. Thanks everyone.
 
I agree, Flowmasters arent the best flowing mufflers. On my mustang I run Mac and took the flowmasters off. And one of the Flowmasters that came off is actually the one on my jeep, just because it was there and they are pretty tough built mufflers. But with that said, Run what you want, listen to other peoples setups to make a choice, and dont worry too much about that extra 3 to 5 horsepower difference, I personally would sacrifice 3 horsepower over hearing a annoying exhaust the whole time Im driving my jeep. (not saying dynomax is annoying) So just listen, compare, then buy. Cant go wrong that way.
 

Megamole said:
I looked into buying a flowmaster or other muffler and having Midas or Miennikee bent up a 2.5" pipe. It would cost the same amount as buying a pacesetter system. If they bend up the pipe then then would install it as well since they have to weld on the hangers, cost was like $150 for the pipe, bending and install plus the price of a muffler.:???: I haven't found a private exhaust company in the area to do the work cheeper. I also called the Jeep dealer to see if the 4.0 exhaust would work they said "yeah same pipe different part number." So it looks like it will be a Gibson cat back for about $50 more than the alternatives. Thanks everyone.
Click to expand...


GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. There has to be a local muffler shop around you somewhere. I got a Flowmaster 40 series cat-back installed on an old car of mine once, $120 total including the pipe, muffler, chrome tip, and installation. Midas will ream you for anything, don't ever go there again. On my '88 Mazda 323 GTX they wanted $800 just for an OEM muffler!! No joke! Find a local shop and get a quote from them, it'll be a lot better.

Also, for what it's worth, I'm also of the opinion that Flowmaster mufflers are great for sound but not-so-great for performance. They do have a unique sound, and it is pretty cool, but there are much, much better performing mufflers out there. Hope this helps some!
 
Well looked on ebay yesterday and someone was selling a newer borla out of and 90 wrangler so I was able to get it for 83+ 30 shipping, not a bad deal. It is still nice and shiny. Hope it sounds good, and gets out of the way of rocks. It cost as much as the 4wd exhaust I was thinking. Anyone have Borla? million mile warranty, suposed to have a nice tone. I will post when I get it bolted in.
 

I thought this was about jeeps not mustratz and GM junk??I wouyld care to know where this info you are speaking of is from...Hot Rod...the paper offspring of Chevy?? Come,come gentlemen,how could you possibly believe that a completely open muffler with designed baffles could be restrivtive in any way?I tend to agree with the guy who said designed in backpressure of any kind was a myth,but,apart from 2 cycle applications,a few strange engines need a small amount for scavenging.I have been sometimes wrong on some things,but,as far as my experiences,on my own vehicles and with flowmasters AND.......BE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT TALKING OTHER QUIET SERIES LIKE 50'S AND 60'S,if its the 40's,I stand by my statements.I tried a gibson catback on my 96 318 Dakota and it actually hurt it.I switched to the 40 Flomaster and it was the ticket.I had an 84 Toyota Supra and with a Borla...not much improvement,but,a Flow master again power and mileage gains.I apologize for my comment about GM junk,but,after over 50 years of listening to so many bench racers with various "hot" GM's and after relieving them of some of their cash with my ugly old Mopars,I tend to bristle.By the way,I have built some pretty badazz chevies and in 1962 set the I stock record at York US 30 NHRA drag strip with an 56 olds.(by the way,it was a very rare 3 on the tree factory 324")..so.....I have spent quite a bit of time including building close to 100 small blocks from my 37 Ford gasser with an 265 Chevie and if yer old enuff to remember any of Hurst ads on the back of Hot Rod mag with the Hemi under glass Barracuda sitting in Hursts parking lot sitting nearby... a 63 Stingray painted 31 coats of Kandy apple red and a very quick 327 built by myself in my shop in Artiesa Ca. in 64........I have built and raced my share of GM's.Maybe,I am behinmd some of the latest tech and if so,then blast me,but,not without documentation please.
 
sorry fer all the typos....but these old fingers are pretty crippled now and I never was a good speller......just a good hotrodder!
 
good grief man.......$150 for a pipe? My shop says $3.50 a foot for aluminized pipe and $20 to bend and install......course he is an old round racer friend,but,I do remeber on my 96 Dakota when Midas wanted big $ and while working in Madisonville KY(great little rodding town)I had the 3" in 40 flowmaster with dual 2 1/2" aluminized out,bent and installed for $160 and it included the muffler.I am not being snoty and I guess I am lucky being an old motorhead with friends.Hey.....where do you live? I could get ya the same or close deal from my friend.Hollar and I will try to help you.
 

heminut said:
I thought this was about jeeps not mustratz and GM junk??I wouyld care to know where this info you are speaking of is from...Hot Rod...the paper offspring of Chevy?? Come,come gentlemen,how could you possibly believe that a completely open muffler with designed baffles could be restrivtive in any way?I tend to agree with the guy who said designed in backpressure of any kind was a myth,but,apart from 2 cycle applications,a few strange engines need a small amount for scavenging.I have been sometimes wrong on some things,but,as far as my experiences,on my own vehicles and with flowmasters AND.......BE SURE THAT WE ARE NOT TALKING OTHER QUIET SERIES LIKE 50'S AND 60'S,if its the 40's,I stand by my statements.I tried a gibson catback on my 96 318 Dakota and it actually hurt it.I switched to the 40 Flomaster and it was the ticket.I had an 84 Toyota Supra and with a Borla...not much improvement,but,a Flow master again power and mileage gains.I apologize for my comment about GM junk,but,after over 50 years of listening to so many bench racers with various "hot" GM's and after relieving them of some of their cash with my ugly old Mopars,I tend to bristle.By the way,I have built some pretty badazz chevies and in 1962 set the I stock record at York US 30 NHRA drag strip with an 56 olds.(by the way,it was a very rare 3 on the tree factory 324")..so.....I have spent quite a bit of time including building close to 100 small blocks from my 37 Ford gasser with an 265 Chevie and if yer old enuff to remember any of Hurst ads on the back of Hot Rod mag with the Hemi under glass Barracuda sitting in Hursts parking lot sitting nearby... a 63 Stingray painted 31 coats of Kandy apple red and a very quick 327 built by myself in my shop in Artiesa Ca. in 64........I have built and raced my share of GM's.Maybe,I am behinmd some of the latest tech and if so,then blast me,but,not without documentation please.
Click to expand...

I don't doubt your experience, but I saw a remarkable improvement switching from a Flowmaster 40 series to a Dynomax race bullet muffler. So take that for what you will.
 
exactly...

flowmasters are good mufflers and are an improvement over stock. but when you see of guys dyno back to back gains of 5-8hp by removing the flowmaster in place of other brands, or from bypassing the muffler altogether...ya start to realize that the "signature flowmaster sound" is just that...sound...not neccessrily performance.

will 5hp make or break a 500hp race car...hell now. but for guys trying to get every little bit out of their low hp rock crawlers or mud trucks...it does make a difference.

with the same $200 and your choice of 2 exhaust setups...one that gains 5hp and the other that gains 12hp...and both sound good. which one would you likely chose??
 
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