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  1. #1
    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Motor timing 180* out?

    Hi gang,
    After struggling with a no start issue this summer and finding a sunken float in the carb. it seems I have larger issues. Without disturbing the distributor (I don't care for the term 'dizzy') it seems the Inital Timing is about 180* out. (A lift of the lynch lid to Jeep Hammer for suggesting this) After detirmining this I pulled the distributor and checking the distributor gear it looked almost new.
    In the past I've had a '69 Pontiac LeMans that fell out of time and it was the 'silent runner' plastic timing gear that had stripped and was evident by the erratic revolving of the distributor rotor. Since AMC uses steel gears and chain how could the IT slip to this degree? Or am I missing something here?

    Thanks in advance for any help
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  2. #2
    greg92jeepxj's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Hey mr. Turbogus ! Yeah , I'm not fond of the term " dizzy" in terms of a distributor either . Since your inspection of the distributor drive gear and cam drive gear yielded satisfactory , I cannot see how a distributor would have "walked" out of time on its own . I'm sure you will get the engine back to,preliminary timing TDC #1 compression stroke and set the rotor accordingly and give another twist of the key . Electronic ignition is funny that way when cylinders are crossed. But the only way an engine could even start 180 degrees out is if the distributor was advanced or retarded enough to start the sequence on the correct cylinder or closest to it. It would be like pulling the distributor and turning the rotor shaft 180 degrees back to,correct it. It amazes me you had the engine running well in this condition. Can we blame the engine builder ? Did they break the engine in to turn key customer delivery condition ? I know of no way other than incorrect install or if the hold down let the distributor hop,out while running . But for the gear to mesh exactly 180 degrees by jumping out of the engine isn't possible . So I'll just say I agree with you to replant the distributor as per standard install as we have be raised from pups and been doing since then and expect it to fire as we always have . This is very interest oping however . As a last note , it will also pay to make certain that valve timing is correct as per your last statement in your post. I would want to be sure too .
    Never overlook the obvious . It's usually right in front of us

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    TLCJ5's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    I agree that the only way for the engine to get 180 deg out is incorrect install. Maybe a PO did a timing gear/chain change & set the gear 180 off. Then changed the spark plug wires to make the engine run. I've seen that done before. Good luck & let us know how you make out after reinstalling the distributor.
    Tom Landvogt
    1978 CJ5(my toy)
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    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Thanks for the responses guys, I'm tearing into it again tonight with a friend. What with my limited time for wrenching owing to my 7 days working week it's not easy.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  5. #5
    greg92jeepxj's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Trying to remember from a previous thread if you've already confirmed that the timing chain is correctly installed in terms of alignment . Shouldn't be necessary but only as a last resort to get a peek inside the timing cover . As long as they are , planting the distributor with balancer on TDC and #1 piston on compression should get BB purring . Might not even need to pull a rocker cover to confirm valves closed either . Only if things are really wrong. But BB ran so the chain must be hung correctly. Real interesting point TLCJ5 made about rearranging the firing order to suit the 180 out mis-install . Was thinking the same . I'm sure your next post will have all that info after some good diagnostics are performed . Your boss is tearing into your jeep life something fierce !
    Never overlook the obvious . It's usually right in front of us

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    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    As if I didn't have enoungh to contend with it looks like the starter went tits up too. My best friend (just out of back surgery) has been helping me with this latter process. We recorrected the distributor position as we had moved the oil pump shaft slightly. The starter was a pecker to remove what with the header and bulkhead right in the way of the upper bolt. My buddy's taking it to the parts shop today for testing/replacement, but the way it looks this morning I'm too tired and sore (torn left bicep) to have at it again tonight.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  7. #7
    greg92jeepxj's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Sorry to hear about the complications . I know that you want to get to the bottom of this and solve the problems with BB but wouldn't want to see you or your best friend on the injured list even though your both healing from different ailments . You guys take your time , jeepz.com will always be here for you .
    Never overlook the obvious . It's usually right in front of us

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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Let us know how it go,s. I agree that the only way it could be 180 out is to be installed 180 out. chain could be loose and have jumped but I doubt all the way to 180 out. Agree the engine shouldn't even start at 180 out, it would try real hard to but probably just back fire real loud and no start.

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    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    My friend took the starter to the parts shop for testing for me, on the bench it was growling, seemed to have a bent shaft and was doing 40 amps - the clerk said between 30-120 is okay, but he got me a new lifetime one anyway
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  10. #10
    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Got the starter in, went in easier that comin' out. It's spinning up fine, may do some more work tonight.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  11. #11
    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    After removing the newly charged primary battery and taking it to NAPA for testing the results were 600 out of 800 CCA. They said they'd put it on their charger this morning and re-test it.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  12. #12
    JPNinPA's Avatar
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    It should have been fully charged before testing. Do you think all the cranking without charging hurt it?
    "Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up" - Jesse Jackson

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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    I dunno JPN, when I stopped by NAPA on my way home last night they said they wanted to keep it for another day and re test it again, kind of odd that.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  14. #14
    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    It turns out the "battery won't take a charge" So, I've got to pay the pro-rate of $72.00 for the warranty of this battery that was used 25 out of 84 months. I think I'm going to go with a new Interstate battery for the same cost and longer warranty.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  15. #15
    JPNinPA's Avatar
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    Sears platinum die hard.
    "Never look down on anybody unless you're helping him up" - Jesse Jackson

  16. #16
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    I've heard good things about Die Hard, but here in Oregon's Wilamette Valley all the Sears stores have closed
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  17. #17
    JPNinPA's Avatar
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    ODYSSEY Auto/LTV Battery Model 78-PC1500. - $305
    Power Ratings: Cold Cranking Amps. CCA 850
    Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F):740
    Reserve Capacity (RC):135
    Warranties & Coverage
    3 years for commercial, industrial, marine and automotive applications in non-BCI sizes.
    4 years for an engine starting application for PC1220, PC1350, PC2250 and all BCI size

    DieHard Platinum Size 34/78DT Battery - $249.99
    Power Ratings: Cold Cranking Amps. CCA 880
    Cold Cranking Amps (CCA at 0 deg.F):740
    Reserve Capacity (RC):135
    Warranties & Coverage:
    Free Replacement Warranty Term:48 Months
    Last edited by JPNinPA; 09-12-2015 at 03:13 PM.
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Well I cleaned up the rotor, reinstalled the cleaned up spark plugs (along with some new ones that I exchanged for ones that didn't thread easily) connected the plug wires and fired it up. I got it to run for about 3 minutes holding the throttle open, in the hopes of warming it up to set the timing. My friend came over and verified my work and it wouldn't start thereafter. He capped the bowl vent and giving it another go we found fuel leaking from the carb. I suspect it's on account of that capped bowl vent. Going to uncap it tonight and open the air bleed screws a little more and try it again.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  19. #19
    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Got it running in the same way last night and despite the bowl vent now unplugged this venerable AFB 'Black Stallion' seems to be leaking from both the primary and secondary shafts.
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

  20. #20
    Turbogus's Avatar
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    Re: Motor timing 180* out?

    Since fuel was seeping from both of the primary and secondary shafts I found a carburator rebuild shop up in Washington that I'm going to ship the throttle body to for bushing installation
    Quick fixes are so named for how long they stay fixed.
    If you run out of gas, no matter which way you decide to push, the closest gas station will always be uphill and in the other direction. Corollary: The likelihood of running out increases when all of the nearby gas stations are closed.
    The parts shop that stocks part for Skylab II will not have parts for our year/model of Jeep.
    We cannot accurately judge the trajectory of a speeding critter (cat, dog, sasquatch).

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