Thread: snow and ice

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    mark sr's Avatar
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    snow and ice

    I have a 2010 jk and it's probably the best 4x4 I've ever had, mostly due to traction control. My driveway is on the north side of a mountain and can get a little hairy in the winter. While I've not had to get out and walk, I have had trouble going up and down at times this year. I know the reason - slid some going down because of slush covered ice, spun/slid going up for the same reason. My wife is convinced that it is a problem with the jeep because in previous years [with no ice] the jeep went up/down without any issues. She wants to buy a new jeep thinking that it's my jeep's fault that it looses traction on ice. How do I convince her a new jeep won't make any difference?

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    JPNinPA's Avatar
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    Directly. How do you loose traction? There is a resistive force between the tire surface and the surface the tire sits on. When you step on the accelerator you are pushing against that resistance. As long as the force you are exerting is less than the surface forces you have traction.


    What changes??
    More torque
    Heavy foot
    Tire resistance
    Surface resistance

    Have you made changes to increase the torque or shifting points?

    Find yourself pressing harder because you think you are going to slide?

    Worn tread
    Different tread
    Wider tires
    Too much or too little air
    Issues with traction control
    http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...vs-summer.html


    Truck tire info
    Dry road
    Friction Coefficient: 0.80
    Rolling Resistance 0.008
    Wet road
    Coefficient: 0.55
    Rolling Resistance Coefficient: 0.008
    Snow
    Friction Coefficient: 0.20
    Rolling Resistance Coefficient: 0.013
    Ice
    Friction Coefficient: 0.10
    Rolling Resistance Coefficient: 0.008
    http://hpwizard.com/tire-friction-coefficient.html
    Last edited by JPNinPA; 02-15-2016 at 09:34 AM.
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    mark sr's Avatar
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    Re: snow and ice

    It goes up and down in plain snow with no problem, it's when there is ice or ice under a thin layer of snow/slush that the jeep has problems. Even though I'm idling in 1st gear, 4 wheel low there are times when the jeep will pick up speed [sliding] going down the driveway. Going up the issue arises when all 4 tires slide on some ice and loose traction. I normally go down hill about 5 mph and 10 mph up hill. My driveway is fairly steep and about .6 of mile long. I know from my previous jeep [xj] that chains will fix it but the jk owners manual states you can't use chains .... I don't believe chains would be an issue since I'd only run them on my road but it is more hassle than I care for.

    My wife is convinced that it is my jeep's fault and we need to buy a new one. I'm having a hard time convincing her that a new jeep wouldn't do any better.

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    JPNinPA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark sr View Post
    It goes up and down in plain snow with no problem, it's when there is ice or ice under a thin layer of snow/slush that the jeep has problems. Even though I'm idling in 1st gear, 4 wheel low there are times when the jeep will pick up speed [sliding] going down the driveway. Going up the issue arises when all 4 tires slide on some ice and loose traction. I normally go down hill about 5 mph and 10 mph up hill. My driveway is fairly steep and about .6 of mile long. I know from my previous jeep [xj] that chains will fix it but the jk owners manual states you can't use chains .... I don't believe chains would be an issue since I'd only run them on my road but it is more hassle than I care for. My wife is convinced that it is my jeep's fault and we need to buy a new one. I'm having a hard time convincing her that a new jeep wouldn't do any better.
    Going down you have the vehicle weight pushing. And in 4x4 low you have max torque on the wheels. The vehicle jerks between moving and the gears slowing the vehicle.


    Another thing with ice vs snow. With wide tires on snow the vehicle will float on top like a sled. Narrow tires are likely to cut through and gain traction. The opposite happens with ice. With ice wider tires give more points of contact and distribute weight over larger areas. With narrow tires cut through snow allowing for more chance of direct contact with the road. On ice the weight is focused on a smaller area , this will cause the ice to melt locally becoming less resistant. This is how ice skates allow you to slide effortlessly compared to wearing large flat shoes.


    http://www.edmunds.com/car-safety/dr...fety-tips.html

    Studded tires
    Stipend of sipping anyway it increases contact area and provides give to large lugs on tires. Check these out. Tires are cheaper than a new jeep.

    https://m.tirerack.com/tires/TireDet...er+Valve+Stems
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    mark sr's Avatar
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    Re: snow and ice

    I know studded tires would help but not sure I'm willing to go that route since they can only legally be run in the winter months which means I'd need to buy 4 rims or have them mounted/unmounted twice a year. In the 6 years I've had this jeep it has only gotten stuck once [ice] although it has had several close calls this year. Once the snow melts it won't be an issue! The next weather system is supposed to bring rain or maybe 1"-3" of more snow

    Hopefully my wife has a short attention span and will forget about the sliding jeep once all the snow is gone!

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    Tires are cheaper. Winter tires use a different rubber compound then summer so they don't stiffen as much in the cold. That one link above talks about tread depth how much is needed. Besides that plow the road. Spread sand or small gravel in the road. We used ashes from a coal furnace on ice. Well I gave you the physics and options it's up to you now.. Good luck.
    Last edited by JPNinPA; 02-15-2016 at 07:03 PM.
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    mark sr's Avatar
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    Re: snow and ice

    If my tractor was 4 wheel drive I'd be inclined to plow the road but with the incline my tractor has problems going up the hill if the road is wet. I do need new gravel but that will have to wait until spring as I have a hard enough time getting them to spread it when it's dry.

    I have no intention of buying a new jeep as mine is paid for and runs/operates fine. My only problem is dealing with my wife when she gets nervous! We don't normally get this much snow or have it stick around this long.

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    Put two 50 lb bags of sand in the back of the jeep over the rear axel. Spread it in the slippery spots. The same with gravel. I'm not talking resurfacing the road. I suggesting you just apply a small amount where it is needed.
    Last edited by JPNinPA; 02-15-2016 at 10:17 PM.
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