I can't figure this one out.........

[90Xjay]

RE: Another poopy cj

OK, I was watching Animal Planet just last night and they were in Dade Co Florida. An animal enforcement officer was really giving this guy a hard time and writing him up for "mistreating" his horses. She said that they looked underweight and their water supply was bad. (it was a cast iron bathtub) She came back in a week and he had cleaned it but the horses had just muddied it up a bit getting a drink and she still threw a fit, but decided to let him slide. Then they find a lost dog, nearly starved and take it in They nurse it back to health, but it has to have a leg cut off due to an injury that would not heal. They call in a surgeon to do a $4000.00 dollar operation. They eventually adopted him out to a good home.

Then there is Terri Schiavo (living human who is loved by her mom and dad) also in Florida where "doctors" are ready to pull her feeding tube and allow her to starve and dehydrate to death over a period about 10 days and that is ok?


If she only were a dog or horse she would have better rights

 

[JeepMonkey]

I don't know about right or wrong because I don't know the laws in FL, but I do think there is a law that is making it impossible for him to remarry and get on with his life while she's still alive. I know that's a pretty sick reason for letting your wife die, but I know I would not my wife to have to suffer thru me being stuck on a bed kept alive by machines. I'm sure somewhere in her head she wishes that her husband could move on with his life and it's probably a thousand times worse for her knowing that she'll never be anything more than a vegetable. I would not want that and if I were able to I'd pull the plug on myself.

You mentioned the Animal planet and how they fight for animals more than we fight for people. Consider this....I've had dogs and cats all my life and everyone with the exception of two have died of old age. The ones I had to have put to sleep were no longer able to function on their own. While trying to cope with the reality of having to kill my beloved pets I read a few books on the subject and this is what they say.
Pets, dogs in particular, live only to romp and play, eat, sleep and above all please their owners. If they are unable to do that then their quality of life is severily diminished. It is selfish of us to keep them around in pain knowing that they can no longer enjoy life just because we can't say goodbye. The healing process can never begin if they're still hurting.

Wow! I just got off on a little rant their. Please forgive me if I offended. Those are just my feelings. I'm just one Jeep owner in the world!

 

[Junkpile]

RE: Got the lift on

Sadly, this happens all the time. I don't think it is "right", but that's just the way it is. I have personally been involved in two of these cases. One was taken off the tube years ago after her mother finally realized that her daughter wouldn't want that "life". She starved, but the law says there was no other way to do it. If you want to change these situations, then change those laws. The other case is a guy that I used to go wheeling with every once in awhile. He is still waiting for his mother to come to her senses and let him move on. He's gone. He was dead 5 years ago......

Terry Schiavo stood in front of God, the law, and the whole world and pledged her love and confidence in her husband, while forsaking all others......this isn't her parents decision to make.
Why hold her up from her eternal reward to live out a jail sentence in a life that serves no purpose?

There are a million arguments hiding right below the surface of this topic.

 

[90Xjay]

RE: Jeep transporting help needed

Once again,
If Terri was a horse or a dog this would be against the law to do to her.

And to kill her in this manner of starving her to death over several days is cruel. Heck you can't starve a death row inmate to death or a Saddam Hussein but you can Terri.

Shame.

 

[duff]

RE: Re: RE: college

from what i understand is that she will be given i.v. drugs to take away any feeling of hunger she could possibly have as a precaution. as far as her parents wishes or , for that matter , the goverments, what about hers? her husband has stated publicly that they {as all couples should } had allready decided together that if either one of them ended up in this position they did not want to be kept alive on a machine. but you dont hear much about that in peoples arguements. i hear alot of republicans ,and some democrats, freaking out about "protecting the sanctity of marriage" but in this case, where it really does matter, the husband seems to be on his own.

 

[TwistedCU]

I for one am disgusted this can happen. There is nothing but her husband's testimony saying she wants to die. She said life support, not food. Anyone seen the video of her smiling at her mon and watching a ballon float around the room?

Her husband has not visited her in years and he wants her to die no matter what her condition is. He will not allow the curtains in her room to be opened for sunlight. He is a sick and selfish man, or he has some alterior motive to not wanting her to live.

Pull a plug on a ventalator and or complete life support machine? maybe... but I would not want to make that call. If that day ever came I would seriously dread that decision, but take away someone's food supply? No way in hell.

How is this woman's condition any different than that of an infant? A baby cannot speak, it cannot answer questions, and relies on someone to feed it. If this child was mentally handicapped would it be just to stop feeding it?

Terry's family has given that man every opportunity to free himself from any ties to Terry. They offered to pay everything, and to take full care of her. A wealthy man has offered him a million dollars to walk away.

Three options are feasible here:

1. Terry's husband loves her so much and knows she desired to not remain in this state. I believe this to be extremely unlikely due to the fact that he has not so much as seen her face in years and has put restrictions as to what she can do and see - things that could possibly help her.

2. Terry's husband is a calloused man or a cowardly man, in either case just does not want to deal with her. The most likely scenario in my view.

3. He has something to hide. I don't think this is likely but it is possible.

Terry's family has made it clear that they have the resources to keep her alive. At this time this only requires feeding her through her stomache rather than her mouth.

Her husband has done nothing to show her love while she sits in an artificially lit room, why should anyone believe he is doing this out of love or as a result of her wishes?

To take away her food is murder.

but I know I would not my wife to have to suffer thru me being stuck on a bed kept alive by machines.

She is alive on her own, not by machines. She cannot eat on her own, much like my wife's grandfather who suffered a stroke a couple years ago. He also has a feeding tube. He has developed from a very poor state to someone who looks forward to seeing his grandchildren every week and can talk to them and remember all their names.

 

[90Xjay]

Once again,
If Terri was a horse or a dog this would be against the law to do to her.

 

[Junkpile]

If Terri was a horse or a dog this would be against the law to do to her.

True, but you wouldn't need to. You could quickly end an animals suffering with a lethal injection, or even a gunshot, and it would be perfectly legal. The same people crying about how creul this is, is the same group that formed the laws that REQUIRE it to be done this way. The pro-lifers have decided that ANY life is their responsibility whether the person who they are talking about wants to be saved or not. Completely miserable? they don't care. Can only sleep 30 minutes a night because the pain is so bad? they don't care. Can't function at all? they just don't care......any waivering would deminish their stance on abortion. Which is why half of them are going around referring to her by her first name like they have known her all her life and they love her. Half of them don't even really care about Terri and won't remember her in a months time, it's just a booster to the real cause. If they did care, they would modify the right to life arguement to include a right to die, so it could happen in a less barbaric manner.

I just hope I don't have to put my wife through this if I ever end up in her situation. I have had to inform her to not even hook the tube up to me to begin with. Just say goodbye and let me go. Once you are hooked to that tube, the only way out is starvation.

*and don't take my pro-life comments the wrong way. I'm just as opposed to abortion as any of you, but I refuse to crutch that position by taking away rights of others who aren't even involved in the discussion. Pro-life sucks.....I'm anti-abortion. I love the death penalty, I'm all for assisted suicide, and if I decide I want to overdose or blow my brains out....it's none of your business unless you have to clean it up.
I also support the sanctity of marriage, which is another reason I think it's time for everone to butt out and let the man carry out his wifes wishes. Like stated earlier, it's funny how the Republicans have forgotten that side of this issue. It IS his job to do.

 

[TwistedCU]

RE: Great Vid.. its a flying ...?? Lawn..?? what?

Well although I agree with some of your statements Junkpile, I think this situation is a bit different. Seeing her smiling on video doesn't imply misery. She's not suffering, she's just completely dependant. If it were a woman having to take huge amounts of morphine to avoid writhing in agony while hooked up to life support machines and had a husband who genuinely seemed to give a damn about her I would feel entirely differently.

What, exactly is she putting that man through?

They are considering being fed life support. I guess we could just cut off the air supply to her room and it would be the same. Maybe turn off the HVAC system till she froze or died from heat exhaustion. Maybe they could just stop washing and changing her her until she got all nasty and died from bacteria. All the things she has done for her are sustaining her life. We are all on life support as they classify it.


By the way: I too am anti-abortion and not so much a "pro-lifer". I believe in Capital punishment. Assisted suicide I can't go for though, it opens it up to being a business, and there are some really sick people out there who would take advantage and capitalize on people in weak positions. As far as "pulling the plug" on a brain dead vegetable, one who cannot breath on their own, there are times when it is more than appropriate.

 

[90Xjay]

Isn't if funny, I started this thread with this simple statement and have not mentioned abortion or assisted suicide and look what has been brought up again and again. :?: :?: :?:

Animals have more rights to not be tortured and humans. That has nothing to do with abortion, suicide or the price of beans in China. That is just a fact. Sad fact.

what if the parent of a 1 year old, who is dependent on someone to feed and take constant care of, decided to do this to the child? Murder and jail time.
Any jack-a** knows that a feeding tube is not considered "life support". Everyone needs to eat and many people are alive, including kids who are dependent on someone else to provide this food.


Why don't everyone just have the right to kill others who are a burden and holding them back?
Terri is not a burden to him, her husband has moved on and got him a girlfriend and started another family. What is his real motivation???

 

[Junkpile]

What is his real motivation???

Okay, lets look at his motivation. He has been offered a million dollars.....he refused it. Her parents have clearly offered to take all responsibility off of his hands.....he refused it. So, Im left with thinking his motivation is to carry out his wifes wishes at the expense of being called a murderer.

What do you guys think his motivation is?

 

[90Xjay]

RE: Re: Comparing Cherokees

Her husband has refused her any type of therapy for over 10 years

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

RE: Re: RE: Back to Virginia

I can't help but wonder where this information some of you quoted (the intimate details) comes from. Do you know her husband or her parents? If not, I'm sure the media provided it, which we all know is not to be trusted.

It's a very sad situation, to be sure. I hope I am not ever in it or put in it.

Other than that, I'm not going to give my opinion because I do not feel like a debate right now.

Lady

 

[TwistedCU]

Check for MUD!!!

What do you guys think his motivation is?

I'm inclined to believe that the man either has something to hide, or he fears she may somehow throw his "new life" into mayhem.

Whatever the motivation, if you are familiar with the whole situation then it is clear the guy has not shown her any love in the past several years.

Honestly, if this man actually seemed to give a damn about her well being and she was on actual life support (which she is not) then I think the decision should be his.

 

[TwistedCU]

I can't help but wonder where this information some of you quoted (the intimate details) comes from.

Her parents, her husband, lawyers, doctors, films and pictures on the news and internet, and yes media too. There are no conflicting reports about the situation, just on the belief of what is and what is not life support, what is morally correct, and what is legally correct.

 

[TwistedCU]

Well it is a federal case now thanks to congress' Sunday session today. The tube will go back in until a federal judge makes a final decision.

 

[Saurian]

Mmm... Wow...

This is one that I'm not gonna get into. Not because of anyone or anything, I just can't think of anything to say that I would want to say...

 

[duff]

RE: new lift - bouncy ride

i'm going back to the cj forum. i'd rather argue about the pros and cons of a body lift

 

[TwistedCU]

Re: RE: Re: Comparing Cherokees

i'm going back to the cj forum. i'd rather argue about the pros and cons of a body lift

okay.

 

[mud4feet]

..........If not, I'm sure the media provided it, which we all know is not to be trusted..................

Lady

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