American Industry

90Xjay

New member
I mused for several days as to whether or not to post this.
I decided I should, just if anything to get some thoughts on the situation.

An article was written last week that made me scared for our country.
And for all of the "globalist" on the board, I pre-appoligize for it's content because all that is good for the "global" economy is not always good for America.





[FONT="Book Antiqua" SIZE="4"]Who killed General Motors?

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Posted: December 12, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern



By Patrick J. Buchanan



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© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

Willys built the jeeps that carried Ike's armies across Europe. Ford built the Sherman tanks. Packard made the engines for JFK's PT boat and for the P-40s of Claire Chennault's Flying Tigers. Studebaker built the Weasel armored personnel carrier.

Chevrolet built the engines for the Flying Boxcar, Buick for the B-24 Liberator, Oldsmobile for the B-25 Mitchell Col. "Jimmy" Doolittle flew in his "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo" raid in 1942.


Nash-Kelvinator built the Navy Corsair and Hudson the Helldiver that succeeded the Dauntless dive-bomber that sank four Japanese carriers at Midway. But no company matched the contributions to victory of General Motors, the greatest company of them all.

Now, most of those companies with the legendary names – Packard, Hudson, Studebaker, Nash, Oldsmobile – are gone. Of the "Big Three" that survive, Chrysler is German-owned, and Ford and GM are bleeding, and their debt has fallen to junk-bond status. Delphi, the auto-parts supplier for GM, just declared bankruptcy.

Thanksgiving week – its share of the U.S. market down from 46 percent, 30 years ago, to 26 percent today – GM announced the closing of nine more American plants and the dismissal of 30,000 more workers.

Many reasons are given for the decline of the U.S. auto industry. The Volkswagen "Beetle" that invaded America in the late 1950s, the Toyotas and Hondas that followed, the Korean Kias coming in today are, we are told, cheaper and more reliable, and deliver better mileage. But there is a more basic reason for America's industrial decline.

A sea change has taken place in the mindset of our elites. The economic patriotism of Hamilton and Henry Clay, of Lincoln and T.R. and, yes, of the Robber Barons of the Gilded Age, who forged America into the mightiest industrial machine the world had ever seen, is dead.

To the economic patriots of the Old Republic, trade policy was to be designed to benefit, first, the American worker. They wanted American families to have the highest standard of living on earth and U.S. industry to be superior to that of any and all nations. If this meant favoring American manufacturers with privileged access to U.S. markets and keeping foreign goods out with high tariffs, so be it.

But that Hamiltonian America-First vision that guided us for 150 years no longer informs our politics. Economic patriotism is dead.

For the Davos generation of leaders puts the Global Economy first. They are all good internationalists. If it's good for the Global Economy, it must be good for America. Theirs is a quasi-religious faith in that same free-trade ideology for which Hamilton, Clay, Lincoln and T.R. had only spitting contempt.

And like Marxists who refuse to question their dogmas, despite manifest signs of failure, our free-traders believe that everything that is happening to America has to be happening for the best.

That U.S. manufacturing that once employed a third of our labor force now employs perhaps 10 percent does not matter. That the most self-sufficient nation in history, which produced 96 percent of all that it consumed, now depends on foreigners for a fourth of its steel, half its autos and machine tools, two-thirds of its textiles and apparel, and most of its cameras, bicycles, motorcycles, shoes, televisions, videotape machines, radios, etc. does not matter.

That tens of thousands of foreign workers are brought in each year by U.S. employers to take high-tech jobs, that U.S. factories are shut down daily here while opening in China, that professional work is being outsourced to India, that we borrow $2 billion a day to finance consumption of foreign goods – none of this matters. The nation does not matter. The country does not matter. For we are all now in a Global Economy.

And so, as the jobs and skills of U.S. manufacturing workers disappear, and the taxes they pay into Social Security, Medicare, and federal and state governments fall, and the cost of their pensions is passed on to taxpayers, and the government goes deeper into debt to cover rising social costs corporations used to carry, other countries quietly observe.

Fifty years ago, a trade deficit of 6 percent of GDP, a hemorrhaging of manufacturing jobs and a growing dependence on foreign nations for the vital necessities of our national life would have been taken as signs of the decline and fall of a great nation.


Our elites tell us that we have simply not read Thomas Friedman, we do not understand that the old Hobbesian world is history, that we have entered a new era of interdependence, where democracy and free markets will flourish and usher us all into a golden age – and we Americans will lead the way.

If they are right, we are Cassandras. If they are wrong, they are fools who sold out the greatest country in all history for a mess of potage.

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i have friends that would go back and forth with you over this nonsense for hours, but i read that and felt like i was sitting in my history class. ick!
 
As the old comic strip character "Pogo" said: "We have met the enemy and it is us"










Edit: cna't spel or tipe
 
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Such is capitalism.... I believe in it, but I won't necessarily like all of it's facets, and this is one of them.

...I'm not going to go out of my way to buy American for the sake of buying American. But like all such systems, this too will ebb and flow.

Cheap prices are one thing, but most Japanese cars cost more than most American ones...so as for "Stealing Market Share" due to lowered cost as a result of cheap labor, it doesn't apply to them. So, what's the excuse there?

"Percieved" superior quality and service, or quantified and proven superior quality and service. GM needs to get the lead out, and become more competitive. They dug their hole by thinking they didn't have to compete in a global economy. Big trucks and gas guzzling cars are not marketable in Asia and Europe, where TONS of money exists.

Ford tried, but mismanaged the scheme.

And it doesn't seem to have an end in sight, because it's hard to sell goods to customers when you **** them off. It seems being the world's "police" is bad for business.
 
Dingus, this is anything but nonsense. If people cared more about history, we wouldn't be as quick to sell ourselves out like this.

What we have ALL done regarding our country's trade practices is a disgrace.

The quality gap between domestics and imports is almost gone. The perception of the brainwashed consumer is the trouble here. I've got plenty of friends who own garages, one of which is the biggest Honda repair shop in the area.....his lot is just as full as the rest. As recent as a decade ago I'd agree with you, but things have improved. The automakers in this country were crippled in the seventies by the gas issues and on into the eighties with the horrible emissions hoops they had to jump through. Recovery has been a long process. The imports snuck in the door with their small little engines and lightweight which gave them an advantage in both areas. The playing field is much more even now, and they have all but closed that gap.
 
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Okay I wrote a book. Those who don't mind reading, thanks. This topic is close to home as you might know (if you read my other posts about work).

90,


I don't care to study the how's or why's of the basis of this topic but I do know what must be done today, for many companies. I don't think any company should burn in hell for going from an American to an International company. As you know, I work for an American manufacturing company that has recently (2+ years) gone international. We have had sales offices in other countries for years and now have manufacturing plants in them as well.

On the topic of the big three, many companies stayed loyal by providing them with the excellent service and value they demanded, like mine did. The rest was up to the big three. Now that the big three are no longer predicted to be the big three of the future, manufacturers are looking at the other owners taking over the market. Their needs and demands are of interest now.

With today's market and its multi million dollar public competitors, my company (which is smaller and private) felt it was necessary to strive to be a player in the international market. We started by servicing customers from the U.S. but it is not always economical to produce in America and ship to Asia, Mexico, or Europe. Some countries will only purchase and deal with a company that have an actual manufacturing presence in that country. Europe is like that. The main of Europe won't even consider purchasing from our UK plant, because old world Europe doesn't consider the English and Brits to be truly European.

The Asian market will buy from the US but the time and money it takes to ship product there is astronomical. That is why we have a plant in China now. Asia and that market will be shifting to China in the next year or so. At the same time, our company is shifting other business and technologies to our plant and we are working very hard to retain our position of importance with our company.

My company has a second generation owner and is over fifty years old. It was founded as a manufacturing company dedicated to investing in its employees and providing them with excellent wages, benefits, and a safe workplace. Today, they still strive to do the same thing despite other competitors forcing those same values out the door.

In doing so, my company has a higher selling price and less of a push in some markets. We provide a top of the line custom product and do so very well but it's a big challenge to still provide what the original owner intended for his employees.

In my geographical area, it is unknown for any company to pay what mine does for many jobs, city government included. We have super health benefits and many holidays off as well as paid sick time, maternity leave, etc.

The international market scares many Americans to death. I see it at work every day. Whispers of secret lay offs and closings abound, both from the inside and outside. I can tell you numerous war stories of both.

Our nine year plan shows many plants in many countries that we don't have presence in.

I hope to be there through all this. I hope to only leave the company at my choosing, if I ever do choose. However, I know this may not always be likely to happen. I know that no day is a given day in manufacturing. We have discussed this here before.

However, I feel fine about my company’s growth plan and going international. I work with the competitors every day and I know where the CEO is coming from on this desire and need to grow. I know the business side of growth too. You can't grow for free; it takes lots of money and lots of finesse with that money. Sometimes other things are sacrificed for that, technologies, people and facilities.

Until, or if that sacrifice ever happens at my facility I plan to work my butt off at my likelihood and being as good at is as I can to provide for my future. If the sacrifice happens, then I'll have fattened up my resume very well to be able to move on and forward somewhere else.

Sitting around bemoaning the fact manufacturing is going international isn't going to save my job or my future. However, understanding it and growing with it will.

Heather
 

it's not really ALL about moving our production over seas. A huge portion of what's wrong is simply selling product to where the money is. We've made the mistake of focusing strictly on American Markets and money.

Let's go get some foriegn money!!!! It's there for the taking if we are ingenuitous enough.

Again...the Japanese have a terribly expensive labor force. 99.999% of the country's population from 1-40 is educated past the highschool level, and that's a pricey work force. They too have moved much of their manufacturing over seas.
 
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mingez said:
...I'm not going to go out of my way to buy American for the sake of buying American.

I've said it before, and strongly stick to my guns on this one, too. I will buy the higher quality product, regardless of where it is made, or where my money will end up. If the US manufacturers want my money, they damn well better make a product worth buying.

Junkpile said:
The automakers in this country were crippled in the seventies by the gas issues and on into the eighties with the horrible emissions hoops they had to jump through.

It wasn't the emissions hoops that killed them. It was building disposable cars in an effort to sell more. They thought that by building a car that would only run 60,000 miles as opposed to one that would run 100,000+ that they could sell you a car 2 years sooner than before. When Joe Citizen realized that Japanese imports were passing him after his car fell apart on the side of the road, he wised up and started buying Japanese. After a few decades of superior imports vs. shoddy workmanship and tin body panels of American cars, it was very hard for Joe Citizen to trust any of the Big 3 again. Admittedly, the US is now building better vehicles, but they are still behind the imports. That gap is getting smaller each year, but it's still going to take a lot to catch up. It was nothing in government restrictions that buried the US automakers, it was simply pure greed.
 
Sparky-Watts said:
..........They thought that by building a car that would only run 60,000 miles as opposed to one that would run 100,000+ that they could sell you a car 2 years sooner than before. When Joe Citizen realized that Japanese imports were passing him after his car fell apart on the side of the road, he wised up and started buying Japanese..........

But, of course my friend, you're not speaking of us JEEP owners!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

We can't help it that we're smarter than everyone else!!!:purple:
 

GM killed GM. I was born into the GM heartland and, except for short wheel base jeeps, would never buy anything but GM.

My wife purchased a 98 GMC Jimmy, and paid way too much for it. It was problematic from the start with a miriad of warranty issues. Problems kept comming once the warranty had terminated including a problem with the fuel pump that the dealer couldnt fix, but was more than happy to keep trying to repair at our cost, with the addtional $90 for a diagnostic each time (even though the only code it would blow every time was that the fuel pump was malfunctioning). They would also gladly replace the fuel pump every time for $1200.

During the time we had it we went through: 2 windshield wiper motors, 3 fuel pumps, 2 alternators (the Delphi $200 ones), the center console broke free (anchored by 4 small plastic screws through pastic housing), the complete air conditioning system had to be replaced, there was a short in the steering column, the seat reclining handles on both the passenger and driver side broke off the shaft, the driver side electric mirror stoped functioning, and the stupid rear view mirror fell off the windshield.

So we ended up with like 3K on the credit card from trying to fix the turd before we gave up. Sold the Jimmy, sold my Camaro. If I could have afforded it I would have taken that piece of crap out to the desert, gave it a viking funeral, and extinguished it with my urine.

Bought an F150 and a Mercury Cyclone. The F-150 hasn't had even so much as a flat tire in the 40K since. I'll buy a Yugo before I buy a GM again.
 
All I have to say is that I work for a Japanese auto manufacturer in a production plant. Their moto is that they will open a factory and create jobs in any country they sell their vehicles in. There are japanese auto manufacturing plants all over North America and in fact, most japanese vehicles here were manufactured here. We just opened up a new factory in Tennesee and will be opening up two more (1 in Canada and 1 somewhere in the States). Just look at most of the parts on these "imports", they will say Made in the USA or Canada. For every person who gets laid off from a North American vehicle manufacturer another job is created in their country by a competing manufacturer (can't speak for other industries though). As far as I'm concerned, Ford, Chrystler and GM have lost business from poor business practices and poor workmanship. They need to look at the competition and start competing with them instead of being so bull headed and assuming they'll dominate the market forever. They need to produce as high quality a product as their competitors at competing prices if they want to survive. Just remember the next time you see a Japanese vehicle and associate "Jap Scrap" with taking your jobs away.... it was most likely produced here in North America.
 
mud4feet said:
As the old comic strip character "Pogo" said: "We have me the enemy and it is us"


your right Mr. Mudd...sad, but so true.

I was working on a bench yesterday with a buddy as a gift for his mom.
He bought some nails at Lowes on the way over.
We were talking about this issue and we looked at the nails....Made in China:x

WE CAN"T EVEN MAKE STINKING NAILS IN THIS COUNTRY??

The mindset has changed from the great industrialist of the early 1900's.
When the crisis arises for us to produce again we won't have the factories or enough skilled labor to do it.

And we will all sit around wearing our clothes made in Bangladesh wondering what happened.

It is sickening to watch is happen knowing it will not change, it's too far gone.
 

I really like Pat B. Great writer and a true patriot.

Junkpile said:
Dingus, this is anything but nonsense. If people cared more about history, we wouldn't be as quick to sell ourselves out like this.

What we have ALL done regarding our country's trade practices is a disgrace.

The quality gap between domestics and imports is almost gone.

The perception of the brainwashed consumer is the trouble here.

All very true.

One thing we must remember about Capitalism, is that it was designed to promote private investment, limit government involvement, and it was founded on individual rights. Nowadays
our government is heavily involved and individual rights are being slowly disintigrated.
 
Look back at domestic cars built prior to the mid seventies and compare them to the vehicles available in ANY other market in the world at the time. There was no comparison. While foreign countries were mass producing little drafty motorcycle engine powered deathtraps, the vehicles made in the USA were cutting edge and top quality as far as comfort and performance goes. The American automobile manufacturer has taken more hits than a professional boxer since then. The bottom line is the bottom line and when excessive money has to be spent in one area, spending must be limited elsewhere to control the bottom line. R&D and prototyping are expensive enough without all of the outside influences. The gas "shortages" of the seventies turned alot of people away from the American automobile because of it's tendency to use more gas than the smaller imports did. That threw them into a frenzy to meet demands for more efficiency. When you throw in the increasingly tough regulations they were faced with to reduce emissions, it's no wonder they couldn't get their acts together through the early 90s. I just don't buy into the idea that they are in the position they are in simply because of greed.
 
On a semi-related note, I really wish someone would just concede the metric battle. I hate having to carry two sets of everything everywhere incase my junk breaks.
 

LadyJeepFreak said:
The Asian market will buy from the US but the time and money it takes to ship product there is astronomical.
mingez said:
A huge portion of what's wrong is simply selling product to where the money is. We've made the mistake of focusing strictly on American Markets and money.
The reason behind these problems... Do you think it is arrogance of the Americans? ignorance perhaps? It is not.

You see, we have lifted tariffs while countries like China have heavy tariffs against American products. We don't sell to them because we can't compete with their domestic products due to heavy taxation. At the same time they flood the US markets with their products for next to nothing. This is what I meant about our so called neo-"Capitalism" and government involvement (aka meddling)

90Xjay said:
We were talking about this issue and we looked at the nails....Made in China:x

WE CAN"T EVEN MAKE STINKING NAILS IN THIS COUNTRY??
Ah, yes... This brings me to American manufacturing obstacle #2...

Evironmental laws. We have strict ones, they are enforced, and it hurts American manufacturors dearly that countries like China have a complete disregard for them. We cannot legally manufacture good quality steel in the US anymore, therefore it is bought from Asia. This explains why Kyoto was so popular with so many other countries yet Bush stood firm against it. It would be the final blow to what manufacturing we have left.

It would be one thing if everyone were on board and we all settled for lower grade steel or developed cleaner ways to make it, but that will never happen as long as you can buy good hard nails from China with no tarrifs and polluted air.

Boy oh boy this stuff really ticks me off. And you all wonder why I am a conservative.
 
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Harry,

It's expensive to ship to China because an ocean is between us and them, among other things.

Really, I don't see what's wrong with growing internationally AND having plants here in America too. It's not like all companies close plants in the US every time they open one internationally. Mine doesn't, anyway.

If we didn't go international, we'd be out of business..all 600+ of us at my company.

Environmental laws, SHEESH. Let us not go there!!!!! They are a mess, for sure.

Heather
 
LadyJeepFreak said:
Harry,

It's expensive to ship to China because an ocean is between us and them, among other things.

Really, I don't see what's wrong with growing internationally AND having plants here in America too.

They have to cross the seas as well... but they have no tariffs ;)

I would have no problem with any of it either, so long as we had a level playing field. The problem is we do not.
 

90Xjay said:
.............WE CAN"T EVEN MAKE STINKING NAILS IN THIS COUNTRY??..............

I know exactly what you mean. I was doing some painting a few years back, bought some paint at Lowe's and grabbed a couple of those little wooden stir sticks while I was at it. On the way home, I happened to read one of the sticks......"Made in Pakistan"!?!??!?!?!?!...........A little wooden stir stick!!!!! They can make 'em there and ship 'em here cheaper than we can make them here?????? C'mon, something's SERIOUSLY wrong.
 
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