Big Quandry

[Sparky-Watts]

Ok, so I had this whole big post typed up last night. It was eloquent, flowing, and really made sense. Then, I decided I should preview it before I posted it. After reading the preview, I was satisfied with it, and closed the tab thinking I had already posted it. :x So, here goes another attempt at what I can remember from the other one:

As I mentioned a time or two, Brad, the manager I had when I started with this company two years ago left about a month ago to run another landscape company. When he left, he took with him his assistant manager, Larry. He also told me that within a few months, once he got things organized, he would bring me aboard to do irrigation service for him, then as things progressed and he got a lightscaping program started, he would bring along our lightscaping guy, Kevin, within about 6 months. I've always loved working for Brad, and the 4 of us, Brad, Kevin, Larry, and I have been great friends for the past 2 years. We're also the surviving 4 members of the team for the past 2 years. I was hired 2 years ago last Friday, and Kevin was hired 2 weeks after me. For about the last 16 months, I have been a crew leader in irrigation service, and Kevin has been the only person in lightscaping.

3 weeks ago, Kevin gave his two weeks notice, saying he was going to work for Brad, so I was called up to do the lightscaping. Mind you, I have no interest in lightscaping, nor do I have any experience in it, but I have been doing it fairly well so far (despite falling 20 feet out of a tree 2 days ago). So, currently I'm a little disappointed in Brad, because Kevin isn't doing lightscaping at the new company, he's doing irrigation service (something which he has very little experience at). Is it wrong that I'm upset? I mean, he promised me he would hire me before Kevin. I know that Kevin did a ton of begging and sucking up to get there, but that doesn't do anything to alleviate the hurt I feel.

Now, fast forward to this week. Monday, Brad calls me and wants me to meet with him and the owner of the other company, so I can get to know him before coming to work for him. Ok, sounds good. (But the hurt is still there). We agree to meet, but don't set a date yet. 5 minutes later, my new manager, Josh, calls me and tells me he has promoted me to be his new assistant manager over the irrigation service/lightscaping service department. :shock: This is a good position for me. It gives me more autonomy in my job, but also more accountability, which is what I thrive on.

Now, here's the rub: Both jobs pay about the same, so the money isn't an issue. I really like working with Brad and Larry (though Kevin can be pretty anal and annoying). I don't fully respect the owner of my current company, due to some recent business and personnel decisions he's made. However, I'm at the top of the seniority list when it comes to the irrigation service department, and I think I can do some good things here as assistant manager.

Problem is, I don't know what to do. Which way should I go? I'm open to comments, feedback, and suggestions from all of you, since you can see the situation from the outside and be more objective. I'm confused. :?

 

[droopey]

sparky,IMO i think you should do what is going to make you the happiest and whatever is the right business decision for you and your family. I wold talk to brad and let him know how you feel and let him know about your new position and see were you would stand at this new company.

 

[JeepMonkey]

I'm kind of a puss when it comes to these things. My wife is going thru similar job difficulties and my only advice thus far has been to do what makes you happy, but also to look at long term goals and which position has the most room to grow and/or excel.

GOOD LUCK!

 

[LRwrnglr]

I would talk to Brad first and see if you came one, that you went back to irrigation, since that is what you love. But as of now from what I understand, you have been promoted back into irrigation so..........I would just say to talk to Brad and see what his plans are. Best of luck to you

LR

 

[mingez]

Do what makes you happy...

...JK. :lol:

Question: Which company is more stable? Obviously the one you work for now has been around longer. What about upward mobility?

Sounds like things are close enough that you need some tie breakers. Write down a pro and con list. Then go back thru and number each pro and con in terms of importance from 1-5. Add up the numbers in each column and you have your decision.

Good luck~!

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Some good advice here, thanks. Though I'm ass-manager for the irrigation service department, lightscaping still falls under that department. I guess it's because it was a small, one-man department, so it was absorbed by irrigation service. Even as the AM, I still go out every day and do the same work, fixing irrigation, testing backflow preventers, testing systems, servicing and installing lightscaping, etc. So, as far as that goes, nothing has changed. Just that I now have more duties. Compared to last year, I now have the lightscaping, customer service meetings, scheduling, bidding jobs, and paperwork.

If I go to work for Brad, I'll be strictly irrigation service, with just a little lightscaping service now and then. And I'll be at the bottom of the totem pole. I won't have a company vehicle to drive to and from work. There is practically no chance of advancing to AM within 5 years, probably more. I won't even be a crew leader there. That company does about $250,000 a year in business. My current company does 10 times that amount. Heck, we made $250,000 in two snowstorms this year alone. The other company doesn't even consider snow removal services.

As far as stability, despite the differing sizes, they are both about as stable as the other....or unstable, depending on how you look at it. Landscaping and irrigation businesses are springing up everywhere, so it's a tough struggle to maintain what business you have, let alone trying to grow. My company, IMO, has grown too fast for the first 8 or 10 years. But, if I am to believe the owner, we have stopped trying to grow, and are now working on internal growth and programs. He follows a book to run the company, a recipe card approach. Sometimes that's good, most of the time it's not so good. I also have my doubts about how he's handling the company's money. It would appear as though he is mixing company money with his own, which is a recipe for disaster. We have somewhere between 90 and 100 vehicles that he has accumulated over the past 10 years or so, but not a one of them is paid for. He just keeps rolling over the debt on them into another loan, never actually paying them off. I don't think that's a good plan. Sure, it works for a while, but in the long run, it can really lead to problems.

I have let Brad know my thoughts on the whole matter, and he understands. He gave no plausible reason for taking Kevin before me. He also has promised me that no matter what I decide to do, or how long I stay with the current company, he will have a position open for me. So, with that in mind, I think I'll make a run with what I've got and see what happens. It's not my first managerial position by far, but perhaps the biggest and best I've taken on. It will also be one of the hardest. But that's ok. I love to be challenged.

On a final note, Josh, my current manager, does not know about the conversations and job offers Brad has made. He suspected at first that I would leave, but is convinced now that since Kevin went over there, that there is no opening for me. As a result, he gave me a nice little raise, effective at the start of the next quarter (April 1). Just hope it's not an April Fool's joke!:lol:

 

[firemanharry]

Easy decision.........go work for the guy that drives a Toyota.

J/K

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Easy decision.........go work for the guy that drives a Toyota.

J/K

Har dee har har har.:roll:

 

[KrazyJeeper]

Man, I would stay where you are for now. Kind words are just that, kind words. If Brad states he will have a job for you whenever, then stay with the existing company and get all the managerial experience you can for your resume. Plus, longevity is something that is looked at on Job apps. Or at least I do. I don't want to invest time in a person if they have signs of stability when it comes to employment. Good Luck in whatever you decide.

 

[KrazyJeeper]

Yeah, that didn't make sense. I meant to say instability.

 

[TwistedCU]

consider all angles, and pick the one that'll leave you going home in the best frame of mind.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

consider all angles, and pick the one that'll leave you going home in the best frame of mind.

Yeah, I have, but you know how the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence....I really don't know how the other job will treat me mentally.

 

[TwistedCU]

If the hours are the same and the pay is the same, and the amount of OT is the same then stay put if you like where you are. If you're not happy then you have nothing to lose by switching

 

[Sparky-Watts]

If the hours are the same and the pay is the same, and the amount of OT is the same then stay put if you like where you are. If you're not happy then you have nothing to lose by switching

Hours are pretty close, pay is the same. I will definitely get more OT here, but can get almost as much as I want with Brad. Brad called me again this morning, and was surprised that I wasn't working. I told him it may be my last Saturday off for a while, anyway, until we get all the systems started up and running. He told me I could work for him weekends if I wanted, and he'd pay me a bonus for it, even while staying where I am. I could do it without any hassle from my current company, so long as I'm not stealing work from them. Since I'll be working for customers who have contracts with Brad, that's not an issue, especially if my company doesn't have work for me on the weekends. So, it won't be like I'm taking time off from my job to work somewhere else. Plus, we don't have a "no compete" clause in our contracts (which is pretty stupid, if you ask me).

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Yeah, that didn't make sense. I meant to say instability.

Yeah, I was kinda wondering about that one!:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[TwistedCU]

how about benefits? How do they compare?
Vacation? Sick? Health? 401K?

They can't be exactly the same and those, in my opinion, are more important than salary.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

how about benefits? How do they compare?
Vacation? Sick? Health? 401K?

They can't be exactly the same and those, in my opinion, are more important than salary.

Good point. Not sure exactly on vacation accrual, but I know I don't have to wait a year to start using it, I can use it as soon as it accrues. That means I get a certain percentage of my hours each week back as vacation/PTO (paid time off) hours. With Suburban Landscape (who I work for now), it was accrued at 2%, I believe, but I had to wait a full year before I could use it. At Unkel (yeah, cool name, huh?), I can use it immediately. Same with health insurance, I can qualify immediately, and use it immediately, no 60, 90, or 120 day wait like most companies. They pay 100% for single insurance, too. Suburban doesn't pay squat. So, I haven't ever used theirs, just been on Sunshine's because it's about $50 a month cheaper. We'll save money there because she'll continue her insurance as single and I'll take mine as single, so it will be cheaper premiums than family insurance.

Both companies have a 401(k) plan, but Unkel doesn't match contributions yet. Brad is working on that, though.

One note about vacation/sick leave/PTO: Most companies in Kansas have gone from paying two separate benefits of sick pay and vacation, and have combined them into PTO. Why? Well, I know when I worked at the hospital, we were allotted 40 hours a year of sick leave, and 40 hours of vacation time (starting out, anyway, and progressively more with longevity). However, their policy was that after using more than 24 hours (3 days) of sick leave, you could be terminated for excessive absences. After about half a dozen people were let go for using their sick leave, they successfully sued the hospital, because at the time, it was against state law to fire someone for using a benefit, in this case sick leave. So, they changed it to PTO, and changed the wording of how it could be used. Basically, they said that to use PTO, you must give 24 hours notice that you would be taking PTO. If you didn't give 24 hours notice, it was considered an unexcused absence and you couldn't collect PTO. If it happened 3 times, you could be fired. Therefore, by switching from sick leave to PTO, they effectively circumvented the law against using a benefit.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

This is really tough on me. I've never had two companies fight to get me to come to work for them. Well, I guess I have one other time. Back when I was an attorney in the Deep South, working as a prosecutor, I had a huge law firm from New York City offer me a job with a huge salary, a huge corner office, and a partnership with the firm to come work for them as a defense attorney. I accepted the offer, and soon became the most successful defense attorney in New York. I won every single case I took. Things were going great, until I found out that my boss was actually the devil, and he wanted me to have sex with my sister in order to give birth to the antichrist, so he could take over the world. I ended up killing them both....oh, wait. That wasn't me, that was Keanu Reeves in "The Devil's Advocate".:???:

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Brad has called me 3 times today trying to get me to come to work for him. We're having lunch with the owner this week to discuss terms of employment, should I decide to go with his company. I'm working out a list of things I want in return. We'll see how serious he is about wanting me when he sees the list.

 

[TwistedCU]

They pay 100% for single insurance, too. Suburban doesn't pay squat. So, I haven't ever used theirs, just been on Sunshine's because it's about $50 a month cheaper. We'll save money there because she'll continue her insurance as single and I'll take mine as single, so it will be cheaper premiums than family insurance.

There's the deal closer. What are you waiting for?!?!?urple: