UPGRADING! with ales and gears

[cali_92]

Dana 44 rear with 4.56 grears with air locker and 4.56 front with locker to match. now should i put my stock springs on and do a SOA set up while im at it? reason would be so i dont have to cut and weld spring perches, and i kinda want to do a SOA. kinda hoping with less arched springs might get a little better ride and some nice flex. will be needing to do some off-roading in the near future. i've been slacking with my road queen jeep. also doing elec. fan conversion... what am i getting into with a complete axle swap?... plus side i also get rid of my drum brakes in the rear! and get some strength. i nvr imagined going so far with my jeep!

*axles

 

[RangerRick]

Dana 44 rear with 4.56 grears with air locker and 4.56 front with locker to match. now should i put my stock springs on and do a SOA set up while im at it? reason would be so i dont have to cut and weld spring perches, and i kinda want to do a SOA. kinda hoping with less arched springs might get a little better ride and some nice flex. will be needing to do some off-roading in the near future. i've been slacking with my road queen jeep. also doing elec. fan conversion... what am i getting into with a complete axle swap?... plus side i also get rid of my drum brakes in the rear! and get some strength. i nvr imagined going so far with my jeep!

*axles

What kind of rear D44 axle? Used? What from? A TJ? Keeping the front a D30? I would NOT do an electric fan conversion..... Not reliable enough in the outback and not worth the headaches they cause in the real world off-road. If you're going to do a SOA, I would consider calling Alcan and ordering custom springs especially built for an SOA application. You will not be happy when you bend the stockers into negative arch within a few months and when you eventually end up ordering new springs because the old ones bent, your pinion angle may be off if you weld perches for the old tired flat YJ springs. Also if you have a 6 cylinder engine, prepare to install some form of anti-wrap bar or loose your rear drive shaft or U joints from axle wrap. Stock YJ springs aren't good for serious SOA lifts. Usually we end up replacing them all within 6 months unless you fortify them with extra leafs. SOA is not cheap if you want to do it right there are many things to address such as steering geometry, axle wrap, brake & shock length even drive shaft modifications. Not trying to discourage you, just that preparation is key and most SOA lifts cost at least as much as a SUA lift. BTW, there's a guy on CL in SoCal that has a set of 4" lift YJ springs for cheap right now............

RangerRick

 

[cali_92]

What kind of rear D44 axle? Used? What from? A TJ? Keeping the front a D30? I would NOT do an electric fan conversion..... Not reliable enough in the outback and not worth the headaches they cause in the real world off-road. If you're going to do a SOA, I would consider calling Alcan and ordering custom springs especially built for an SOA application. You will not be happy when you bend the stockers into negative arch within a few months and when you eventually end up ordering new springs because the old ones bent, your pinion angle may be off if you weld perches for the old tired flat YJ springs. Also if you have a 6 cylinder engine, prepare to install some form of anti-wrap bar or loose your rear drive shaft or U joints from axle wrap. Stock YJ springs aren't good for serious SOA lifts. Usually we end up replacing them all within 6 months unless you fortify them with extra leafs. SOA is not cheap if you want to do it right there are many things to address such as steering geometry, axle wrap, brake & shock length even drive shaft modifications. Not trying to discourage you, just that preparation is key and most SOA lifts cost at least as much as a SUA lift. BTW, there's a guy on CL in SoCal that has a set of 4" lift YJ springs for cheap right now............

RangerRick

i appreciate the info. i really do. i already have a completed 4" RC lift on my yj and everything that goes with doing that lift complete. i don't do much off-roading...nothing serve at all. im pretty set on the elec. fan heard mainly good things about it. i have a 2.5 cyl so it'd be nice to lose the clutch fan. i will take that all into consideration. reason for considering the SOA is because the D44 im swapping in i believe has the peches on top. i still have my stock springs and they already have a add a leaf to each of them. im picking the axle up tomorrow. we shall see what im getting into.

yes used. i had a friend/mechanic check it out already. off a jeep cherokee. front will be D30 with internals 4.56 gears with locker to match the back.

 

[jps4jeep]

what size tire are you looking to run?

I have 3" lift spring, sprung under and run 36" tires all day long with fender trimming, I can fit 38's and have run them off road several times.

SOA set ups are great, but not on stock springs, in teh past when I've build SOA spring packs, I usually will mix in a bunch of springs from factory SOA vehicles, particularly from S10's. YJ springs will wrap pretty bad the first time you accelerate. you can build a anti-wrap bar but sometimes simplicity is better.

as for the electric fan, do it. 10's of million of vechicles run electric fans all the time, they hardly fail, and if they do, just turn the heat on all the way and keep an eye on the guage.

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

I recommend the electric fan as well, great mod.

You will have to move the perched regardless when using. Cherokee axle, so consider keeping it SUA for Simplicity. Cherokee axles have drum brakes in the rear from the factory.

 

[cali_92]

what size tire are you looking to run?

I have 3" lift spring, sprung under and run 36" tires all day long with fender trimming, I can fit 38's and have run them off road several times.

SOA set ups are great, but not on stock springs, in teh past when I've build SOA spring packs, I usually will mix in a bunch of springs from factory SOA vehicles, particularly from S10's. YJ springs will wrap pretty bad the first time you accelerate. you can build a anti-wrap bar but sometimes simplicity is better.

as for the electric fan, do it. 10's of million of vechicles run electric fans all the time, they hardly fail, and if they do, just turn the heat on all the way and keep an eye on the guage.

im just going to continue to run my 33s... 36 and 38! thats a lot of tire. my 2.5 couldnt move those. why wont the stock springs hold up? they should work the same if their mounted on top or below the axle, their both in the middle of the springs. but if i do get into more intense off-roading then strengthening the springs will be addressed. you think i cant run with the stock springs on a SOA even if i just on the road?

I recommend the electric fan as well, great mod.

You will have to move the perched regardless when using. Cherokee axle, so consider keeping it SUA for Simplicity. Cherokee axles have drum brakes in the rear from the factory.

fan is a certainty,
ok that makes sense about having to move the perches anyways. i like keeping it simple... usually means cheaper too. i understand that in no way a good SOA is cheaper then a SUA but i already have just about all other modifications i'd have to do done with my lift now.
this axle that im getting has disc brakes so it has to be aftermarket from the jeep that it was on.

 

[xjmarc]

I'd suggest keeping your current lift since you have it. New springs and steering can get pretty pricey. Make sure the 44 is from a Cherokee not a Grand Cherokee. Grands have rear disc but are actually a 44a and have almost no aftermarket support, a weak aluminum housing as well as c-clip axles. They are considered junk by just about anyone who has run them. BTW your front is a D30 not a D35.

 

[cali_92]

Re: UPGRADING! with axles and gears

I'd suggest keeping your current lift since you have it. New springs and steering can get pretty pricey. Make sure the 44 is from a Cherokee not a Grand Cherokee. Grands have rear disc but are actually a 44a and have almost no aftermarket support, a weak aluminum housing as well as c-clip axles. They are considered junk by just about anyone who has run them. BTW your front is a D30 not a D35.

they would be my old springs and what would change with the steering? i have to double check about the Grand no Grand but what do u mean they have no aftermarket support? whats wrong with c-clip? and aluminum housing? and yes keep mixing the D30 and D35 up for some reason

 

[xjmarc]

The 44a uses a different carrier than a 44 so only one or two lockers and c-clips will let a wheel come off with a broke shaft. Disc help but backing plates can bend driving with a broken shaft. The aluminum housing is weak and the steel tubes can spin in it because you can't weld them together.
Going SOA requires high steer to clear the leaves.

 

[RangerRick]

Okay guys I will still disagree with the electric fan business but hey, to each their own. I won't go into details but lets just say EMS and first responders don't generally rely on electric fans for their vehicles as the only means to cool their engines unless it's non-critical like the meter-maid or community service volunteers vehicle and leave it at that.

As far as SOA, I still don't recommend it for people who don't know exactly what they are getting into. It's not as "simple" as it seems and NO, Wrangler springs do suck big time for SOA. Every one I have done with stocker springs has been a big upset and we end up changing the springs out in the end anyhow. Yes, they do flex really nice in the beginning but in the end, they will negative arch on him guaranteed. The OP is better off SUA with his project even though a 2.5L 4 popper is less likely to cause axle wrap in the rear, he's better off SUA since according to response, already has a 4" lift so why bother, just move the spring perches on that XJ D44. BTW, the XJ D44 is a great upgrade for the D35 in his Wrangler, not a D44a from a WJ as stated above. Aluminium is normally a great material and strong but not for our application in this case it was not designed to be punished off-road hard so if it is the aluminium unit, skip it. You'd be better off with an 8.8 out of an Explorer if you're going to source a C clip axle anyhow. Id thieve the disc brakes off a D44a to use on an XJ D44 though. Sounds like you're keeping a D30 up front and that's just fine. If it's the factory high-pinion front or if it's another high-pinion out of an XJ without the CAD, that's even better, I whole heartedly agree with the other posters about the axle upgrades and retaining your "already have" SUA lift.


RangerRick

 

[cali_92]

alright. sadly its out of a grand so its the D44a. i've read all the negatives about it that you guys have posted. but i've decided to continue with the swap anyways.. mainly because of the gears and the locker in the rear. just to buy gears is $200 if i wanted to change them in my D35 in the rear. and now for $200 im getting a D44a, 4.56 gears, locker, and disc brakes. and for another $80, im getting 4.56 gears in the front with air locker. now does anyone think thats a bad deal/way to go? for the DD that it is and the little amount of light off-roading i do. i think its a solid choice. certainly not the best but for the price, i couldn't pass it up. now would it be better then cutting of the perches to just change the rear end to coil over and get rid of the springs in the back?

 

[Jester32]

Well you won't wanna run coil in the rear unless you run it in front. Kinda be scary. And it's a big job to make a rear coil setup work unless you know what your doing. Lots of bars. Arms. Adjustments. Measurements are critical. Good for flex. Not the wallet.

 

[cali_92]

Well you won't wanna run coil in the rear unless you run it in front. Kinda be scary. And it's a big job to make a rear coil setup work unless you know what your doing. Lots of bars. Arms. Adjustments. Measurements are critical. Good for flex. Not the wallet.

well u settled that one for me. springs it is. haha

 

[xjmarc]

Find a spare set of shafts because these aren't much stronger than your current 35. I'm guessing it's a lockright locker since that's one of the few you can get for it. I'd say truss it but I'm not sure how you'd tie in the center section. Good luck with your swap.

 

[cali_92]

Find a spare set of shafts because these aren't much stronger than your current 35. I'm guessing it's a lockright locker since that's one of the few you can get for it. I'd say truss it but I'm not sure how you'd tie in the center section. Good luck with your swap.

thanks. i might regret it in the end, but at least i'll get some knowledge of axle swapping

 

[grims]

I guess i dont understand this whole build first off you have said you only do light off roading so why the need for lockers? second if you want lower gears for bigger tires to make it look good then your D35 and D30 will accommodate 4.88 third the elec. fan is a great idea in a perfect world and i think every jeeper should have one hanging on the wall of there shop to show they tried it. Im not trying to be negitive but it sounds like a lot of work just to see if you can I been working on jeeps for 35+ years and im just trying to save you from some disappointment .....good luck in your build

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

the elec. fan is a great idea in a perfect world and i think every jeeper should have one hanging on the wall of there shop to show they tried it. Im not trying to be negitive but it sounds like a lot of work just to see if you can

One generally doesn't upgrade to an electric fan 'just to see if you can'. I've been using one for years with no problems, my only disappointment would come if the fan were on the shop wall and not in my jeep

 

[Jester32]

I love my electric fans. Put one on everything I own. My last cummins had two for 585,000 kms. My Cherokee has two stock elec fans one in place of the factory mechanical one. My race truck for obvious reasons. I love it on my Cherokee can shut it off for deep water crossings. Saves the rad every time haha. Only one I had problems with I took apart and fixed the brush on the trail in ten min i was up and running. I dunno. Just me though. To each his own. How's the parts scrounging coming.

 

[grims]

I didnt mean to ruffle feathers as far as the a lot of work I was talking about the whole axle swap.
I should have stated that i was talking about after market fans factory fans are more reliable and draw less power anyway im new here and dont want to start off on a bad note

 

[jps4jeep]

Fans are Fans, like most things in the world, you get what you pay for; a $50 Derale fan compared to a $500 Flex-a-lite, obviously there will be quality and durability differences. I run a 3.8L ford fan; been running one in my jeep and in my pickup, never had an issue. In fact they work so well, I've been trying to fit one in my hot rod, but I can not simply package the fan in the tight room that I have to work with, but this is a whole different issue.

Someone asked about SOA on factory srpings; the rotational torque applied to the spring from the axle is different in a SOA and SUA set up location of the shackle, length of the leaves/spring pack build and the position of the spring eye wrap. Basically the stock YJ springs are not designed for a SOA set up, the springs are awefully short, the spring eyes wrap under the bushing which is not an ideal maner for SOA; there are no helper leafs or Zero rate leafs in the pack which reduced axle wrap.