SYE Install questions

[jfrabat]

Well, first of all, here's a picture of that shows what I mentioned about the axle...

As I mention, I have an angle issue with even with the shims that came with the kit (4* shims), as I still have about 22* of difference between the shaft and the diff. I calculated it taking a picture as close as I could to the side, and then tracing the lines in AutoCAD like this:

I went to Napa to try and get shims with more angle, but the only thing they have is 4*, which is what I already got on the Jeep. I drove to Napa, which is about 10 blocks away, and anything over 30 mph I get REALLY bad vibrations from the driveline, as you may well expect. I need to fix this fast, as this is my daily driver, and although I was out of the country last week, I will be leaving my wife without a car this week, which means she is hating the Jeep more than ussual; NOT A GOOD THING!

Anyway, here's a shot of the shims I currently have on (PRO COMP 4* that came with the RE 4" lift):

According to the RE instructions, the double military wrap goes to the frame, but as you can see in the pics, maybe if I turn the springs around I could get a better angle; what do you guys think? Would that be a bad thing? It seems the only way to get more angle out of the springs... The down side was that it was REALLY hard to get these springs in place, but if it is the way to go, I certainly need to do it!

Also, if I DO add more angle, I think I will need to extend the centering pin somehow; any ideas on how to do this?

I am waiting for your help, as I really need to get this fixed pronto!

Felipe

 

[mud4feet]

Looking at your pics, is the shim in backwards? I don't know, but just thinking logically, it seems if the shim were reversed, it would kick the axle up a bit more, perhaps giving you a better angle. Just a thought, and please tell me if I'm full of it............I usually am. Just trying to help with something I know nothing about.

 

[jfrabat]

I noticed that I made a mistake; I retook the picture and used a wire to mark the correct position, and it seems I need about 12* total (8 more than the 4* that I currently have on) if what I read about having the pinion angle at a 2* difference is correct... Is it normal to have such a high angle? And where would you recommend that I get the shims?

Here's a picture of my calculation...

By the way, I imagine it is not adviseable, but can you use 2 shims on each side of the axle? I have found online 8* shims, but no 12* ones... (this is the one I found for 8*: http://www.tellico4x4.com/product_i...23635?osCsid=9778146476355144126a7a312584a997)

PLEASE HELP!

Felipe

 

[jfrabat]

Looking at your pics, is the shim in backwards? I don't know, but just thinking logically, it seems if the shim were reversed, it would kick the axle up a bit more, perhaps giving you a better angle. Just a thought, and please tell me if I'm full of it............I usually am. Just trying to help with something I know nothing about.

The thick side of the shim needs to point forward, so that the differential points up... That's how I have it installed, but I need more angle. In the picture above, you can see the 0* line (white), the current line, and the line I need to reach... So the 4* are in the right direction, they are just not enough.

Felipe

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Those shims are for use with a transfer case drop and an oem driveshaft.

Do not stack shims, they'll break and spit out.

I would recommend cutting off your spring perches and welding on new ones. I can get you a link to some $12pr. Mopar Spring perches if you can't pick them up locally. If you don't have the tools, a welding shop could cut them off and reweld them so the pinion is at the proper angle.

1º or 2º down at the pinion is generally acceptable due to axlewrap under acceleration.

 

[jfrabat]

Those shims are for use with a transfer case drop and an oem driveshaft.

Do not stack shims, they'll break and spit out.

So it is not too weird to have such a high angle? That makes me feel better...

I would recommend cutting off your spring perches and welding on new ones. I can get you a link to some $12pr. Mopar Spring perches if you can't pick them up locally. If you don't have the tools, a welding shop could cut them off and reweld them so the pinion is at the proper angle.

So then you would not recommend using shims at all? I have some perches that I bought when I was thinking about doing a SOA conversion... Would those work? I guess they would, right? I will have to find a shop next week to get that done, as I do not have welding equipment (or experience!).

1º or 2º down at the pinion is generally acceptable due to axlewrap under acceleration.

Yeah, that's what I read on most sites... I was thinking about finding shims that would allow for this difference, but you are right; I guess it is better to have them welded.

Felipe

 

[currupt4130]

I know it's an inconvenience, especially when you have seen the light at the end of the tunnel. It didn't even cross my mind to tell you the truth, but I guess I'm used to just pulling axles and having to move the perches anyway. Hope you get it worked out fast. All the advice above is correct.

 

[jfrabat]

But still, my main question is if I should use the perches I have (I bought some Warrior Products leaf spring perches from Quadratec when I was still thinking I would do a SOA conversion; http://www.quadratec.com/products/92000_202.htm) or will I need new ones...

I guess the ones I have will work fine, but to have this confirmed would make me feel much less anxious!

Also, can you guys confirm if then my kind of angle is ussual? Sorry for all the green horn questions... And thanks for your help and patience!

Felipe

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Those perches will work fine.

Your angles appear normal, once you get your pinion inline with the driveshaft. My rear D44 is up around 15º or so.

 

[jfrabat]

Thanks, Bounty. I already found a shop to do this for me...

 

[jfrabat]

OK, I took the Jeep to my mechanic today, and he will take care of installing the brakeline extensions (because I could not get them to come undone without damaging them, so I opted to leave them alone and have an expert take a look at them), the pitman arm (I could not find the right socket size for the nut, so I could not get the nut to come out; it is suppossed to be 1 1/4 but I tried in 2 different brands, and neither one actually fit the nut, so again, I left it to the expert), and he will take out the old leaf srping perches and weld the new ones in to correct for the pinion angle (I have no access to welding equipment or experience welding).

This is an expense that I was not planning on, but thankfully, ussually this guy is fair on the pricing, so it will not be soooo expensive. Byt the way, I went to Midas to get the pitman arm installed, and they pretended to charge me $474 for changing a pitman!!! That should be considered a CRIME to evercahrge so much!!!! Needless to say, I did not install it there...

Felipe

 

[jfrabat]

Well, it turns out that the mechanic did not do what I asked of him; not all anyway! He installed the break lines, and installed the dropped pitman arm, but did not do the axle work. All he did was take out the shims I had installed, and left the axle at 0 degrees, so now it is even worse!

I asked him to make change the perches and weld them at the right angle, but he says he will not do it because he can damage the axle, and he is not willing to take the risk! So now, I am stuck with a vibrating Jeep!

From what I understand, everyone that has done this has had no mayor problems, but he says that welding the new perches (and taking out the old ones, for that matter) can create leaks and damage the axle, and he says that the pinion angle will make lubricating of the internal components of the pinion really bad, so the gears will wear out very quickly.

Based on what I have read, this is not so. But I do need help on what to do next.

So, just to reconfirm, what I need to have done is:

1. Take off the stock spring perches
2. Install the new perches correcting the angle of the shaft
a. Angle should be kept to 1* of the shaft angle to allow for spring warping under acceleration
3. Reinstall new U-Bolts

Am I correct or am I missing something?

Felipe

 

[currupt4130]

You and all of us are correct. Your mechanic is a dumbass. He probably can't weld to save his life if he's worried about damaging the tubes.

Here's what you do. Pull the axle out, grind the perches off, put the new ones on (don't weld), slide it back under (make sure it's centered), set your angle and then tighten your u bolts. Then leave out your rear drive shaft, put it in 4wd and drive to the nearest welding shop or find someone to weld them tight for a 6 pack of beer.

 

[jfrabat]

Thanks, corrupt; but by mere chance, I kind of stumbled into a solution...

I was driving back from a party last night (around 1:00AM), and stopped to get some gas, and lo and behold, there are all these very nicely outfitted rigs on the gas station... Turned out it was the monthly meeting for the Miami4X4 club, so I just got out and started talking to the guys, and found a person who does this kind of things. I talked to the guy and we'll meet tomorrow, but this guys seems to know his stuff much better than the other mechanic I took the Jeep to... So I think I will use this guy (as long as he is not overly expensive, of course!).

Felipe

 

[currupt4130]

Great news, thats good to hear that you got hooked up with a good group of guys.

 

[cewtwo]

Sorry that I get into these things so late.

I installed a Ford 8.8 axle at the same time that I installed the SYE. I got the axle on (spring perches loose - I cut them way down to increase my clearance). I was able to raise the transfer case (it had a drop from the lift). I lined up the drive shaft and the differential and welded the perches. The Mighty YJ has never been so quiet...

Those ended up being the only pictures that I took. Not much help...

The cut down perches...

The classy addition to the finished product...

 

[jfrabat]

Well, I got the driveline aligned now, and now there is NO vibration (OK, there was a very tiny little bit that I could feel only because I was looking for it when driving at 80 mph!). It seems my install is FINISHED! I will post pictures soon!

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Good to hear.

 

[jfrabat]

Well, guys, as promised, here are the pics of the finished product (I also updated my signature and avatar!).

OK, here is how the angle ended up:

Here's the welding job (it's actually better than it looks in the picture!):

And the finished product...

The ride is a bit more "jumpy" than before, but not unlike any pickup truck I have ridden in, so it's quite acceptable. Even though I have not installed the swaybar discos (so for all practical purposes, there is no sway bar), there is not too much roll on turns, which is good.

The only negative, I think, is that now the tires look too thin; I just may HAVE to buy my 33's MT sooner than I thought!

Also, with the new Speedo gear, I feel the engine is working better than before... Seems to lag less than it used to (although this could also be the electric fan).

Anyway, thanks to everyone for their help on this issue; you were MOST helpful!

Felipe

 

[cewtwo]

Mighty fine lookin'!

There is just something classy about those square headlights! I am partial to 'em!

Congratulations on a job well done!