Tune up and Diagnostic- Exhaust Leak Repair Options?

LadyJeepFreak

New member
Well I'm back guys. I had a tune up and diagnostic today. It did not go well. I figured it wouldn't. It was my first visit to a "real" mechanic outside of the stealership since my warranty ran out earlier this yaer.

I knew that her milage was getting near or over when they start recommending certain services.

About three weeks ago she started running rough and was seeming to lose power big time at start up, and when accelerating or shifting gears. It's hard for me to explain being non mechanical but I can say that I've had to pretty much force the RPM's higher than usual to get her up and going in each gear. She sputters alot too. Just as of a week ago or so, she started being LOUD. Tapping, pinging, and just vrooom loud when in motion (mostly on the passenger side of the engine compartment).

I was also experiencing death wobble and have been for probably three or four months now. I tolerate it and seem to know how to make it go away when it does happen. This didn't concern me as much as the other stuff.

Well, I got my Haynes manual last weekend and started looking it over for loss of power and other associated types of problems. I found like fourteen things it could be but most of them were too mechanically involved for me to assess them.

Enter car mechanic. He did my tune up and said my spark plugs, fuel filter, and basic stuff was fine. He said my brake pads are worn in front, which was also expected. I know I can take care of that with help. They say the tires are "chopped up" whatever the heck that means. Plain english please? Basically, they are getting worn right?. That sucks. They are about two years old. I have never really replaced tires very often on past vehicles. The kind I have are freaking expensive too. Besides, I still see plenty of tread on them.:purple: lol Anyway, he was telling me that they were pretty balanced already and the death wobble won't go away until I get new tires. It hasn't killed me yet though. It doesn't show itself until I get to 40 mph and I rarely drive over 50 mph anyway.

My main issue- This loss of power and loud thing. He SAYS I have a leak in the bottom of my exhaust manifold where these two peices of metal have a ball and socket joining with two bolts. Supposedly there is no gasket between the bolts and they are as tight as can be but I have a leak. Also, he said that the entire exhaust manifold would have to be replaced to fix this. :???: Am I missing something? Were talking several hundreds of dollars of parts let alone hundreds of dollors of labor on a three year old vehicle.

He mentioned the "bad design" etc. that I've read about on the boards by doing a search.

He * *, I'm still making freaking car payments and outrageous insurance payments on this vehicle. Help me out will you? Is this guy blowing smoke or is there an alternative for me? I'd find a way if there was. I hate to think about getting into these types of expensive repairs before I even pay for the Jeep.

I'm attaching a sheet he gave me when I asked for more info. Tell me what you think pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

Thanks so much!
LADY

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as for the tires - think shocks - i had a bad "scalloping" problem w/my old jeep w/the stock gear - had 2 worn shocks and one bent one - death wobble ? check out the steering damper - my 89 i have now did that stock - the damper was so shot my 4yr old could have probably cycled it by hand - as for the exhaust - cant they (or you) fab up a gasket (damn i miss the days of asbestos gasket sheets....) gotta be some better way than having to R/R the entire manifold.... i'd try what i can b/4 shelling out that kind of cash and you can get a 2nd and 3rd opionion.... probably not much help but hope so....
 
Hey, LJF, good to see ya' back.

I can't believe the guy did a "tune-up/diagnostic" and didn't at least change the plugs. You and I have similar vehicles. I'm on my third set of plugs now (88K miles) and I'll probably be changing them out before too long (I think the manual calls for 30K intervals). Twice I've had the sputtering, not runnin' worth a darn problems you mentioned, and both times new plugs and wires (once) cured it. It's something you can do yourself, not complicated at all. The hardest part is removing the throttle body (to get to one of the plugs), but that is really very simple. As for your DW, have you regularly rotated the tires? Helps them wear evenly like you wouldn't believe. I was always bad about it in the past (with other vehicles), but my Jeep has taught me that this is IMPORTANT!!!......especially with the larger tires. By "chopped up" he probably means that they are "cupped".......even though the tread looks good, if you run your hand over the tread you can feel it. This can be caused by various things, bad shocks being one, but regular rotation will reduces this. And, of course, once they become "cupped", they shake much more and cause undue wear on all the rest of the suspension parts.
As for your exhaust problem, that is a surprise to me. No problem here - same design.
Good luck bonding with your Jeep!!! Grab a wrench and say "Hi!" :lol: :lol:


BTW - my brakes made it to about 85K......woulda gone longer but I had a bad caliper. I'm pretty adamant about staying off of them as much as possible........I love to downshift!!
 
Mud and LV, you are on the ball! Ty for the Wb. LV, I'll be Mcgyvering something up from nailpolish and shoestrings if I have to! I won't be replacing all this stuff, I swear! (don't make me eat my words).

Mud, they did do the spark plugs. Not the wires though. I had a sputtering and power problem in the past with a carberated station wagon I had. It was always plugs and wires with that one too. I did think of doing the wires. At least thier aren't that many. The wagon had eight and everyone was always mixing them up! lol I actually read your spark plug exprience in one of the back threads I searched up. I will keep that in mind for the future. I think I'll try to do the wires too. My haynes shows how to do that, like you said.

Rotation, the mechanic asked me that too. I guess I haven't done what they suggest. I was told every 8000 or so miles. I bet I've had it done twice in the lifetime of the vehicle which is between 34 and 40K now (can't remember exactly). I bet your right about that wear. Not sure about what's causing it. The shocks were upgraded with offmarket when the spacers went in, which was about the same time the M/T's went on.

I'm thinking of taking it to an emisson shop if I can find one that does a free check and see if they can find any leaks themselves. I'm gonna check the haynes for that too.

Thanks for the tips. I am actually looking forward to learning more about how the jeep works and troubleshooting it. I just wish It was on my own time and not when it is running wrong.

Lady
 

also.... check and pos. R/R the cap and rotor - crossfire can wreak havok on perfromance even if you change the wires and plugs... i had an old Honda in my "cherry" days and it took a shop to tell me that crossfire inside the cap was causing all my hesitation - only had power on top end - sucked on idle and off idle..... dont know if its been covered but i'm too tired to re-read EVERYTHING.... ;o) hope it helps.....
 
LVRockCrawler said:
also.... check and pos. R/R the cap and rotor - crossfire can wreak havok on perfromance even if you change the wires and plugs... i had an old Honda in my "cherry" days and it took a shop to tell me that crossfire inside the cap was causing all my hesitation - only had power on top end - sucked on idle and off idle..... dont know if its been covered but i'm too tired to re-read EVERYTHING.... ;o) hope it helps.....

Just a note........'03 --- no cap, no rotor,no distributor. Dang computers.
 
really??? and think mines got one o'them ol' fashioned carburator thangs.... ;o) didnt know they went to the direct fire - pretty soon they're going to need a label on the "sealed hood" proclaiming "DO NOT OPEN! NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE!" with a seal that voids the warranty!
 

LVRockCrawler said:
really??? and think mines got one o'them ol' fashioned carburator thangs.... ;o) didnt know they went to the direct fire - pretty soon they're going to need a label on the "sealed hood" proclaiming "DO NOT OPEN! NO USER SERVICEABLE PARTS INSIDE!" with a seal that voids the warranty!

HAHAHA!!!!!!! You got it! Nowadays, tune-up = change the plugs........that's about it.
 
Sounds like the check engine light should have come on with the sputtering, did they ever check the trouble codes with a scanner?

Kuhmo's are some of the cheapest MT's out there, still good tires, but sounds like they're cupped from lack of rotation. Common with coil spring jeeps from what I've seen. Gotta do it every oil change to make them last.

It's common that the exhaust manifold cracks at the collector, just above the joint your mechanic told you about. This causes leaks and poor performance, and is only corrected with a new exhaust manifold. Make sure you buy the new design manifolds with the flex joints to avoid future issues.

As for the death wobble, I'd closely inspect the front track bar, make sure each end is very tight. Also check out the control arm bushings for tears. Make sure your caster is set correctly as the budget boost would have thrown it off.
 
Do the things first that should be done by now anyway...

Change the spark plugs. If your TJ's distributerless ignition is like my XJ was then it's a simple job, but the area is tight to work in making it frustrating.

Rotate the tires. If they're cupped, then like Bounty wrote they probably weren't rotated. Also check the tire pressure. Low pressure can cause uneven wear, especially on a mudder. I suggest 35 PSI for the street. You'll get different opinions on that one, but 35 PSI should ensure proper wear.

Change your front brake pads. If you want to spend a few extra $$$ then get the ceramic pads. My first set of ceramics were on my YJ and I've bought nothing else since. No more rust colored brake dust and they dissapate heat quicker (reducing wear and brake fade upon hard braking). With the Haynes and Jeepz available this is definitely a DIY job so long as the rotors are in decent shape. This won't help performance or DW but hey - you need your brakes ;)

As for the exhaust manifold, that would probably be one you want to pay to have done. Again, like Bounty said, make sure you don't use the same pos that Jeep installed the first time.

If your rear tires are not cupped, then a simple tire rotation may help the DW.

Get those done and see how the Jeep responds. I'm a firm believer in doing the cheapest fix first. These need to be done anyway so get 'em done and go from there. It may not run like the day you took it home, but I am sure these simple things will make a marked improvement.

It's great to see ya back on Jeepz!
 
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The exhaust leak is more than likely a crack as stated above. I had the same problem years ago, but welded the cracks and never had any more problems. Nowadays I would just put on an aftermarket manifold.
There is supposed to be a gasket in there, your mechanic just didn't see it. It is a donut shaped ring that sits in the "ball and socket" as he calls it. Others call it a collector. Sometimes you won't notice it right off the bat because it will stay wedged up in there. If you didn't have one you'd have noticed long ago.
A reputable exhaust shop can probably hook you up on the repair
 
Tires can be chopped from out of balance - going wheeling increases the chance of tossing a weight.
The DW can begin there, reverberate, escalate and scare the hell out of you. New dampner may help, (basically hide the worn steering components you may have) but that is all it will do. If you got the DW, you have other thigs to worry about. *-I dont run a dampner-* I dont have any DW either- tight as a drum. Have you checked your unit bearings? What about steering linkage? DW is all that.

As for the lead donut gasket your mech says you are missing(from what I understand) why do you need a new ex manifold? If you do go get one, try the boneyard first. or get a header. Dont spend that rediculus $$ on another factory part.

Loss of power? go to autozone, tell them to whip out their OBDII scanner and pull the codes. Its free. If the ECU is getting bad data form its sensors, itll run likie $hit, as the ECU is trying to compensate for a so called condition its being fed, and adjusting your ignition timing, a/f ratio, etc.. to fix what it thinks its reading. I dont know off hand if you got a mass air flow sensor, or not but if thats jacked up youll be lucky to idle.

Just something else to consider..

hoobs
 
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