The land of the free?

[TwistedCU]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/21/D8J0MGOO1.html

In a nutshell, a judge ordered that the parents of a 16 yr old who has Hodgkins disease were in neglect because they allowed their son to forego chemotherapy and instead use alternative treatments. This is the kid's second bout with the cancer ( of the lymphatic system). Chemo didn't work the first time, and the side effects are hateful and can cause other forms of cancer like leukemia. chemo also damages organs.

I'm not trying to say if chemo should or should not be used. My nephew went through it at age one. He is a 6 yr old survivor today. What shocks me is how intrusive our governments are and that these parents now must both share custody of this 16 yr old boy with the State and sign consent to the doctors to restart chemotherapy on the kid as per a court order.

Unbelieveable. It's not like the kid has diabetes and they were keeping him from insulin. There are many views on how to combat cancer, and none of which are proven, known cures. I hope that the next level of legal battle restores the choice to that family - where it belongs.

 

[Snitty]

I agree with you. There is no freedom there.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

That's just wrong!! What right does the government have to say that holistic (or other alternative) treatment is useless and an endangerment?!? After my dad got cancer, I read up a lot on it, including many, many treatment options. In a lot of cases, the holistic treatments were no better or worse than chemo or radiation, but had far less horrendous side effects. (I don't mean holistic as the only treatment, I use it as a "catch all" for all alternative treatment methods). My dad was the 1st person in the state of Kansas to try an experimental form of bone marrow transplant, and the 3rd in the nation to do it. He always told me that no matter what it did to him, at least they could learn from it and help others from what they learned. That was cool. He lived 13 years longer than the doctor predicted. Just after he had the transplant, another younger man had it and was in the same room with dad. He died a month later. A friend of dad's used an alternative treatment consisting of herbs and different minerals, and lived for 8 years longer than they predicted. Dad's heart was eventually damaged by all the heavy chemo he had to undergo, and as a result, he nearly died in the back of my ambulance on the way to the hospital. He got a pacemaker, and that helped for the most part. I had a friend in high school who was diagnosed with liver cancer just before graduation. It was so far along when they caught it that the doctors said they couldn't treat it, that she would be dead in just a few months. She had a tumor on her liver the size of a football. She began taking holistic treatments of special herbs, plants, animal extracts, and a very specialized diet. She lived another 2 years, but with absolutely no ill side effects from the treatment. I've seen firsthand how badly the chemo and radiation therapy ravages the human body, and it's not at all pretty nor is it humane. When dad was getting ready for his marrow transplant, they hit him with such strong chemo that pregnant nurses couldn't even go onto that floor of the hospital, and both mom and I lost moles off our face and back, as well as suffered from minor hair loss, diarrhea, and vomiting just from the fumes coming out of dad's body.

Sorry to ramble on. My feelings on holistic, or alternative, treatment is 100% supportive.

Although I generally don't care for the ACLU, this is one time in particular that I feel they should step in with both guns blazing and fight for this kid's rights, as well as for the parents' rights. That just really ****es me off, TC. Sorry again for rambling, but I agree 100% with you.....this is sooooo wrong!!!!!

 

[Gone&DoneIt]

WTF?!?!?! I'm not even gonna get started on this one.

 

[Gone&DoneIt]

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/21/D8J0MGOO1.html



Unbelieveable. It's not like the kid has diabetes and they were keeping him from insulin. There are many views on how to combat cancer, and none of which are proven, known cures. I hope that the next level of legal battle restores the choice to that family - where it belongs.

Okay, yes I am!!! I tried to keep my mouth shut but just can't. When did we become a nation of Pussies??? I know this is going to sound harsh but newsflash--- PEOPLE DIE. It is sad. I am truly saddened by this childs plight, but the State has NO RIGHT to step in and dictate a medical regamine. The precident this sets is God Awful. Just stop for a second and actually think about the stage this sets. The government will now have the LEGAL RIGHT to dictate medical choices to individuals. Again, stop and think about that. The State will be able to legally force you to take whatever drugs and or treatments that it through it's other facet the FDA says you should take. I say again WTF?!!?!?!?! people are going to die, kids, old folks, me and you. We as a nation need to understand that and stop being so rediculous about it. I saw a thing where a surgeon was being indicted for manslaughter because he failed to save a man from some kind of heart complication. The State was trying to say that he was negligent in going against the accepted treatment method and trying something different. It wasn't publicized that the guy ALSO had liver failure and was going to pretty much die regardless and the proceedure the surgeon performed was less invasive and would have allowed him to have a better quality of life if successful.

Twisted, thanks for posting that. This is one I am gonna follow.

 

[TwistedCU]

You know, for years the State of Maryland, among many others, has been forcing parents to put their kids (usually boys) on Ritalin. It usually starts with the schools. Teachers will advise a parent to send their kid to get evaluated for ADHD and they will also recommend where to send them. If they do, and the kid is diagnosed, then the same type of situation presents itself. If the parent refuses, then the same thing happens: Teacher calls social svcs, they get the courts involved.

They took disciplining away from teachers, so how else would they deal with those pesky, energetic, disruptive boys??? UGH is pains me to think of it all.



It happens all the time. I had a neighbor back in Parkville who had her son on ritalin. If she took him off it then she risked losing custody of her own son to the State. As a matter of fact, the woman asked my wife what would be needed to homeschool. She was prepared to quit her job and homeschool him. Not sure exactly how it went down, but she was not allowed (again, unconstitutional) because of something about they needed a way to monitor him. She is not allowed to take her son out of the State without prior permission.

That kid was over our house all the time. I know him well and I will say he was one of the better behaved kids in that area prior to Ritalin

To think, people ask me why I moved to PA when it meant a long commute to work. My reply is always the same: It's not about me.

Although there are instances where true hyperactivity may need treatment, ADHD is massively over-diagnosed and Ritalin is massively over-prescribed. Sadly, many teachers and even many parents are not willing to let boys be boys and they drug them. It is reminiscent of Brave New World.

Don't even get me started on Prozac and the like... Pills don't fix problems in life. Pills numb you to them. Chemical inbalance? Yeah, anyone who is regularly stressed or anxious or depressed because of circumstances in life will have inbalances compared to someone who does not... but the inbalances are not the problem, they are a symptom.

Do you realize how many people in our country are on drugs like ritalin, prozac, and other anti-depressants? It is both staggering and freightening.

 

[mingez]

One more vote here for saying that's wrong. The decision is the family's.
If they want to use a South American Witch Doctor to treat their child, that's their perogative. I'm not being a smart-ass either.

Now, is there more to the story I wonder?

 

[KrazyJeeper]

I agree its wrong for the State to dictate something like this, but I have one question. Who is pushing this? There has to be someone behind the scenes, or a family member. It could be a political move by someone, is there a ex-spouse or an in-law that doesn't support the parents in their nurturing? For this to be made public, there has to be an alterior motive. Just my humble opinion.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Although there are instances where true hyperactivity may need treatment, ADHD is massively over-diagnosed and Ritalin is massively over-prescribed. Sadly, many teachers and even many parents are not willing to let boys be boys and they drug them.

You said it there!! ADHD is just a catch-all phrase for "I can't or won't discipline my kid." Why won't they? Because of the state, once again. They have taken basic discipline and made it look like inhumane treatment. Lay a hand on a child, and you risk losing that child and going to jail. But let's not get off on a tangent about discipline, even though it's related because it's the government telling you what you can or can't do with your children.

 

[Snitty]

...but the inbalances are not the problem, they are a symptom.

I am 300% with you on that one. With absolutely no formal psychology/physiology/sociology education, I have taken nearly 30 people I know off of Dr. prescribed "mood drugs" simply by helping them realize that THEY have to take control of their mental/emotional state and improve the way they handle their actions.

I have no doubt that the medical field plays a large part in Big Brother's control

 

[90Xjay]

You know, for years the State of Maryland, among many others, has been forcing parents to put their kids (usually boys) on Ritalin. It usually starts with the schools. Teachers will advise a parent to send their kid to get evaluated for ADHD and they will also recommend where to send them. If they do, and the kid is diagnosed, then the same type of situation presents itself. If the parent refuses, then the same thing happens: Teacher calls social svcs, they get the courts involved.

They took disciplining away from teachers, so how else would they deal with those pesky, energetic, disruptive boys??? UGH is pains me to think of it all.



It happens all the time. I had a neighbor back in Parkville who had her son on ritalin. If she took him off it then she risked losing custody of her own son to the State. As a matter of fact, the woman asked my wife what would be needed to homeschool. She was prepared to quit her job and homeschool him. Not sure exactly how it went down, but she was not allowed (again, unconstitutional) because of something about they needed a way to monitor him. She is not allowed to take her son out of the State without prior permission.

That kid was over our house all the time. I know him well and I will say he was one of the better behaved kids in that area prior to Ritalin

To think, people ask me why I moved to PA when it meant a long commute to work. My reply is always the same: It's not about me.

Although there are instances where true hyperactivity may need treatment, ADHD is massively over-diagnosed and Ritalin is massively over-prescribed. Sadly, many teachers and even many parents are not willing to let boys be boys and they drug them. It is reminiscent of Brave New World.

Don't even get me started on Prozac and the like... Pills don't fix problems in life. Pills numb you to them. Chemical inbalance? Yeah, anyone who is regularly stressed or anxious or depressed because of circumstances in life will have inbalances compared to someone who does not... but the inbalances are not the problem, they are a symptom.

Do you realize how many people in our country are on drugs like ritalin, prozac, and other anti-depressants? It is both staggering and freightening.

That is reason number 3 out of 58 that my children are home-educated and God willing will never step inside of a goverment school. (they are no longer "public" schools or they would be ran by the local taxpaying people)

 

[TwistedCU]

I am 300% with you on that one. With absolutely no formal psychology/physiology/sociology education, I have taken nearly 30 people I know off of Dr. prescribed "mood drugs" simply by helping them realize that THEY have to take control of their mental/emotional state and improve the way they handle their actions.

I have no doubt that the medical field plays a large part in Big Brother's control

In the novel Brave New World, "soma" is an 'opiate of the masses' that replaces religion and alcohol in a peaceful, but morally controversial, high-tech society far in the future. Soma, a narcotic-tranquilizer in tablet form, is regularly taken by all members of society in order to produce feelings of euphoric happiness.

sound familiar?

 

[TwistedCU]

In the novel Brave New World, "soma" is an 'opiate of the masses' that replaces religion and alcohol in a peaceful, but morally controversial, high-tech society far in the future. Soma, a narcotic-tranquilizer in tablet form, is regularly taken by all members of society in order to produce feelings of euphoric happiness.

Humanity is carefree, healthy, and technologically advanced. Warfare and poverty have been eliminated, and everyone is permanently happy. The irony is, however, that all of these things have been achieved by eliminating many things — family, cultural diversity, art, literature, science, religion, and philosophy. It is also a hedonistic society, focused on deriving pleasure from promiscuous sex and drugs.

sound familiar?

 

[Sparky-Watts]

In the novel Brave New World, "soma" is an 'opiate of the masses' that replaces religion and alcohol in a peaceful, but morally controversial, high-tech society far in the future. Soma, a narcotic-tranquilizer in tablet form, is regularly taken by all members of society in order to produce feelings of euphoric happiness.

sound familiar?

I took Soma prior to my neck surgery as a muscle relaxer. Combined with Lortab 10, it pretty well took my mind off the pain, but didn't make it go away. As for how it affects the brain, it is very, very similar to Lortab, and really never should have been prescribed with it. Soma is not a narcotic, but it's actual pharceutical class escapes me at the moment. It does not work directly on the muscles, but rather on the pain receptors in the brain, essentially blocking them from processing pain messages from the body. It works as a muscle relaxer by telling the brain there is no pain, thereby creating a mental state of relaxation, rather than a physical one. It is a very, very dangerous drug the way it is being prescribed now. When I was taking it, I was also on Prozac (for pain relief, not depression), lortab, and occasionally antihistamines, all of which are listed as possibly creating serious drug interactions with soma/carisoprodol. The doctor I had at the time knew I was on these drugs (because he is the one that prescribed them for me), but obviously either didn't care or didn't know of the interactions....he was a quack, and I'm glad I'm no longer seeing him!!!

 

[Sparky-Watts]

It is also a hedonistic society, focused on deriving pleasure from promiscuous sex and drugs.

You say that like it's a bad thing.urple:

 

[TwistedCU]

I took Soma prior to my neck surgery as a muscle relaxer. Combined with Lortab 10, it pretty well took my mind off the pain, but didn't make it go away. As for how it affects the brain, it is very, very similar to Lortab, and really never should have been prescribed with it. Soma is not a narcotic, but it's actual pharceutical class escapes me at the moment. It does not work directly on the muscles, but rather on the pain receptors in the brain, essentially blocking them from processing pain messages from the body. It works as a muscle relaxer by telling the brain there is no pain, thereby creating a mental state of relaxation, rather than a physical one. It is a very, very dangerous drug the way it is being prescribed now. When I was taking it, I was also on Prozac (for pain relief, not depression), lortab, and occasionally antihistamines, all of which are listed as possibly creating serious drug interactions with soma/carisoprodol. The doctor I had at the time knew I was on these drugs (because he is the one that prescribed them for me), but obviously either didn't care or didn't know of the interactions....he was a quack, and I'm glad I'm no longer seeing him!!!

Thanks for that description, but the "soma" I was referring to was in reference to the ficticional drug in the ficticional (although seemingly quite prophetic) novel Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. I realize there is an actual drug that bears that name but that's a whole different Soma

Strangely enough, the way you describe it I can see why they gave it that name. Ookey spookey :shock: :lol:

Good reading: http://www.huxley.net/bnw/index.html

 

[Gone&DoneIt]

Morlocks and Eloys. I don't mean to come off like some guy with a aluminum foil helmet to block the brain scanners or anything, but we are seeing more of our freedoms erode during our lives than I think in the history of this proposed 25 year Grand Experiment our founding fathers planned for. I know it is a little off the original topic of government forced medication, but I think you are seeing the gradual transition of our society into a Wells like society, and what tool do we use to sedate the Morlocks? Ritalin, drugs, and empty promises.

 

[TwistedCU]

It works... by telling the brain there is no pain, thereby creating a mental state of relaxation

Ah, yes... it makes the brain think everything is okay when it is really not. Kinda like liberalism attempts to do. I get it.
urple: :lol:

 

[OutOfStep]

Sad to say that it's par for the course these days. The government is full of authoritarians of both the right and left flavor, and they're well aware that they know what is best for their surfs. What's worse is the majority of the surfs somehow were duped into believing their drivel.

 

[TwistedCU]

Sad to say that it's par for the course these days. The government is full of authoritarians of both the right and left flavor, and they're well aware that they know what is best for their surfs. What's worse is the majority of the surfs somehow were duped into believing their drivel.

yes... that's it. The have's and have-not's are separating further from each other daily. The middle class is being eliminated. I see many serfs here are determined, educated, and still allowed to vote. Now if we could just wake up the rest of them. Maybe their slumber is drug induced. It's difficult and akin to waking the dead.