i am a mechanic and they are a big waste of 80 bucks same with cold air intake. nobody in there right mind can feel ten horse difference anybody that says they can believe way to much. all it does it add volume which it does not need and spinning the air does not make a bit of difference the fins just add something to slow down the air its not smooth and for the cold airs they only increase velocity by making bigger holes thus letting in more dirt and debry bad idea in an engine it might add a little horses but i would rather do gears or a stroker to get power rather than ruin my engine. my buddy claims it cleans aup your emissions but how can adding volume do that it cant i tell him its from the seafoam he dumped in the tank. its not even cold air its getting engine temp air from the engine bay the stock one gets it from around the headlight which is truly cold you want it colder insulate the box and tube that goes to the tb. if these so called low buck upgrades are good why didnt the whole team of engineers put them on?
Do throttle body spacers really work?
- Thread starter TerryMason
- Start date
Jester32
New member
Nitrous is the best way to add power lol. Love it. Sprayed ecerything ive ever known. Ive been tempting to spray my lawn mower. As long as you run a little rich all will be ok under 150 shot. Ive sprayed a stock 4.0 l with a 200 shot for about ten bottles with nothin special done to it and it loves it. Keeps everything clean.
superj
Active member
with all this discussion on these throttle body spacers, how many people have any type of degrees to maybe use to help this discussion? like an applied science degree in some type of powerplant form or some engineering degree?
i ask because one person pointed out a very good point that alot of people might have missed out on a couple pages back. some people caught it and argued that lots of people are tbi or carb'd but for all the factory multi point fuel injection people asking about the spacer, there was a hell of a point made back on page 3 or so.
i happen to have an associates degree in aviation technology for power plants and reciprocating engines is a huge part of that degree.
i ask because one person pointed out a very good point that alot of people might have missed out on a couple pages back. some people caught it and argued that lots of people are tbi or carb'd but for all the factory multi point fuel injection people asking about the spacer, there was a hell of a point made back on page 3 or so.
i happen to have an associates degree in aviation technology for power plants and reciprocating engines is a huge part of that degree.
superj
Active member
ok, so you understand why they are not going to do anything on certain types of engines, like pointed out on page 3 (or whicever one it was)? besides the cost per supposed hp. this is the kind of stuff that sometimes when people get into discussions need to be pointed out. just say that i have an actual degree in this field, which is relative to our topic, and this is the reasoning behind this part not doing what the manufacturer is claiming.
some people don't realize others have training specific to the topic and that sometimes what people are saying is from education, not from the seat of hteir pants.
some people don't realize others have training specific to the topic and that sometimes what people are saying is from education, not from the seat of hteir pants.
quicksand97
New member
I have a degree in experience through trail and error. I am a mad scientist, You should see my labatory. Hey guys think old school, remember high rise manifolds and mid rise manifolds, along with longer runners and such. Well one thing they got right is smooth and larger plenums and intake runners. Of course they had fuel and air in the mix. Think of a throttle body spacer as a mini rise manifold, but for air only right. Now any TBS with a screw design will only slow down air. Air is not going to hit the walls of the ridges on the bore only and decide to do a 90 degree turn. A smooth spacer would work better for smooth air transitions and would give you enhanced performance. Now for spacers with air blades that extend towards the center of the bore that would take care of all your air coming in even at the center and direct it in a slight 45 degree angle for increase pressure and velocity. Take for example your air conditioner vent in your vehicle and remove the vent. You would get air flowing out but just oozing out. Put your vent back in and direct it at a desired focal point and you will feel increased air pressure. Yes some throttle body spacer companys have high claims in horse power increase. Yes the dyno might say 5 HP increase but if it feels like 10 HP I will take it. Would you rather have something that reads 15 HP gain on dyno and it only feels like 7. Anyway Air/ fuel/ Spark. Power to wieght ratio, and o yeah wind drag. Its all a balance and you have to find yours. FUN, FUN, Fun
thats air conditioning and that is from RESTRICTION you dont want any restriction to make it work harder you want a smooth flow if you put freakin stationary blades in there to slow it down or restrict it then it sounds like it would actually loose power still 10 hp for 80 bucks aint worth it if even 10 i bet not a single hp is added nobody can feel 10 hp out of a 200 hp engine might as well put that 80 bucks into somethin use full like an engine swap or a stroker kit maybe sounds alot smarter to me what do others thing about that.
i never said it works i say they dont and that is one of my points why because any spin the air has if any at all would get messed up by the valves
jfrabat
New member
What you want is called "Laminar Flow" as in the air flows in layers without any turbulence. Bends in the routing, non-smooth surfaces, restrictors, and all that affect laminar flow. Of course, in the case of our engines, having laminar flow is really not that important because once it gets to the intake manifold it turns 90 degrees, which will cause turbulence anyway... So in our case, what you want is to be able to move as much volume as possible so that the cylinder can suck as much air as possible to be able to BURN as much FUEL as possible (the ECU will constantly try to reach 14.7 mixture unless in open loop - as in WOT or warm up).
Now, this does not mean TB do not work; you can have a smooth TB, and it WILL have an effect, but it is not more or less power (well, if you put the one with the wings, there WILL be less power because those "vortex generating wings" really are restrictions), but it's more an issue of moving the torque band up or down in the RPM range. So depending on where in th RPM range you want the most power, you can adjust for that.
There was a dyno test done by a guy in the street who had a friend with a Dyno. He tested a Jep 4 banger stock, with 4.0L TB, with 4.0L TB and Helix spacer, and with a 4.0L TB and smooth spacer (same one as before, but smoother out). The best torque came with with e4.0L TB and smooth spacer, but the increase was not HUGE.
When it comes to a single mod like this, it is unrealistic to say that one single mod (other than regearing) will be a night and day difference, but when you ad many mods, you can feel the difference. So, will a TB spacer work? It can, depending on the spacer. Will it give you a bit of more ussable torque? It can... Will you feel this torque difference? Probably not.
Now, this does not mean TB do not work; you can have a smooth TB, and it WILL have an effect, but it is not more or less power (well, if you put the one with the wings, there WILL be less power because those "vortex generating wings" really are restrictions), but it's more an issue of moving the torque band up or down in the RPM range. So depending on where in th RPM range you want the most power, you can adjust for that.
There was a dyno test done by a guy in the street who had a friend with a Dyno. He tested a Jep 4 banger stock, with 4.0L TB, with 4.0L TB and Helix spacer, and with a 4.0L TB and smooth spacer (same one as before, but smoother out). The best torque came with with e4.0L TB and smooth spacer, but the increase was not HUGE.
When it comes to a single mod like this, it is unrealistic to say that one single mod (other than regearing) will be a night and day difference, but when you ad many mods, you can feel the difference. So, will a TB spacer work? It can, depending on the spacer. Will it give you a bit of more ussable torque? It can... Will you feel this torque difference? Probably not.
quicksand97
New member
Thats right you are not going to get all the horse power you want from one mod, it all adds up 5HP there, 3Hp here, 10 somewhere else. If you did it all at once you would feel a nite and day difference. One mod at a time can be hard to feel sometimes.
Have any of you guys ever heard of getting hot air due to engine heat in that open K&N air filter which is not good as appose to getting cold air which helps the combustion?
jfrabat
New member
Cold air is denser, hence, it has more Oxygen molecules (which ecuates to more "usable" air). And the engine bay IS hot, so you want your air from OUTSIDE the engine bay. But again, the change in performance is not drastic...
As for changing the engine, it is cheaper still to just ad a supercharger with piggy back ECU than an engine swap. Engine swaps are expensive, time consuming, and a very involved project... Regearing is also expensive (at least $1,000 and on the cheap to have it proffessionally done on both axles). Also, keep in mind that one of the advantages of the 4 Banger is that it is light. It's not a bad engine either, if you gear it right and squeeze all the power out of it. It is reliable as heck!!!
superj
Active member
that is the point. i know its not getting mixed any better where as if i have not done this type of work, or had this type of education, i might not have known. that is why i think if people are going to say that this thing works, they need to explain it alot more.
i am saying it won;t work on mpi or direct injection vehicles because of the same reasoning you are using, no fuel is in the air stream yet so you will have no better mixture then before.
also, on your hot air entering the filter.
if you run an open element filter to the engine bay (like a lot of people do) you are going to be sucking in hot air while idling. say at the stop light or whatever. like mentioned already, hot air has less oxygen molecules so you are going to have less power because less air= blah blah, you know. anyways, once you are moving you are going to be getting cooler air, like if you had your filter enclosed with a tube from the outside. its just when you are stopped and the ambient air temps rise from no circulation that you are going to get hot air but that applies to an enclosed filter with w tube to the outside because there is this problem called heat soak. your filter enclosure will get hot as time passes from being in that stagnate non moving air and then you are back to sucking hot air.
anyways, there was a very good explanation a bit lower on the spacers and how they affect a mpi or direction motor because of hte O2 sensor.
now we are getting to the meat and potatoes (so to speak) of what is actually going on in the intake and what the spacer actually does. it moves the hp and torque up the rpm range, not actually increases it, by lengthening the runners of the intake. the same happens with shorty and long tube headers. you can change your hp and torque range by using different types of headers.
i like this part of the threads. the technical part. i loved the different powerplant courses and the different theory courses. very interesting information. then, ending up racing bmws, it helped in deciding what i wanted to do to the engine to reach my goals efficiently
