85 CJ7 Steering Question?

[PoliceMonkey161]

Hello,

Great site, excellent problem solver advice.First time that I have asked for help....Most of the time awesome help can be found already posted! 8)

Ok, so I have a 85 CJ with 31" tires (new), a 3" Black Diamond Lift (roughly) and 2" lifted shackles that were inherented from PO. I have installed a drop Pitman arm and replaced the frame bushings. And I did have a front end alinement (all good, but caster angle).

It seems like the steering is overly sensetive, maybe even a lose feel? I would not call it Death Wobble, but I do get a little bump steering on big pot holes. But the sightest turn of the wheel and Iam chang'in lines.....

Someone mention this is caused by the vehicle being lifted so high??? Any thoughts? I'm plannning on installing a 2" spring kit (as the Black Diamond is saging a little) and 1" shackles.

 

[TLCJ5]

Did the Alignment shop adjust your caster angle? The symptoms you describe sound like the caster is off. If the lower part of the verticle axis is in front of the axle the vehicle will be hard to keep straight("overly sensetive, maybe even a lose feel).Angled shims can be added btwx the axle & the spring to bring it back to verticle.
Also have you disconnected your anti-sway bar? That will can make the steering feel "loose" even if all else is correct.
Good luck & let us know what you find.

 

[PoliceMonkey161]

Thanks Tom, so I researched the caster angle and I understand. According to the shop that did the front end alignment, the left is -1.2 and the right is -.5. I will look up the specs tonight.

But what will disconnecting/removing the anti-sway bar do?

 

[PoliceMonkey161]

Did the Alignment shop adjust your caster angle? The symptoms you describe sound like the caster is off. If the lower part of the verticle axis is in front of the axle the vehicle will be hard to keep straight("overly sensetive, maybe even a lose feel).Angled shims can be added btwx the axle & the spring to bring it back to verticle.

Also have you disconnected your anti-sway bar? That will can make the steering feel "loose" even if all else is correct.
Good luck & let us know what you find.

Thanks Tom, so I researched the caster angle and I understand. According to the shop that did the front end alignment, the left is -1.2 and the right is -.5. I will look up the specs tonight.

But what will disconnecting/removing the anti-sway bar do?

 

[TLCJ5]

I'm not sure you understood...You want to make sure the antisway bar is CONNECTED. When disconnected the steering will feel loose. You can disconnect it for more wheel travel off road,but on the road the Jeep will get really "squirrely".

 

[PoliceMonkey161]

I'm not sure you understood...You want to make sure the antisway bar is CONNECTED. When disconnected the steering will feel loose. You can disconnect it for more wheel travel off road,but on the road the Jeep will get really "squirrely".

Got yah! Now I understand....... Thank you again.

 

[69jeepcj]

Assuming all the above is check and are ok.
You have 5 inches of lift running 31" tire on a cj. Those 31 will fit a stock cj, did it, done it, ran them for years when I was younger. They will rub a little, but nothing major. For a stock cj to run 33" tires, a minnimum lift is 2 1/2" for them to fit. So even with your new 2" kit and 1" shackles your still overkill for a 31" tire. Nothing wrong with doing that, im just saying you don't need that much lift to run that tire if you don't want to. I don't think that is part of the problem you are having though,(although the 2" shackles are not helping any). Check that your shackle bolts are not too loose and letting the shackles shift from side to side, I found this on mine once. Check your spring plate u-bolts that they are tight as well. Put a jack under the plate and raise the jeep a little, take a hammer and tap the ubolts side to side, if they move any tighten them up. If they are loose your front axle can be shifting as your driving. check that you steering gear box is bolted on tight,(cj boxes are known for loosening). check that there is no play in your steering shaft joints. the joint that is down by the box is nitorious for going bad, easy fix though, its just a rebuild kit and is simple. Hopefully your problem was at the alignment shop.. good luck

 

[superj]

and have them set your toe to the max and it will help with the wandering feeling. mine is the same way right now because i had a recent alignment and they set the toe towards the low side instead of the high side

 

[808CJ7]

Another thing you might want to check are the axle shaft u-joints. I had that problem on my cj. I would try to make a slight turn and wound up darting into the next lane. Very scary! Tried everything. Nothing would work. Then I decided to replace the u-joint on the axle shaft. When I pulled the axle shaft, I found one of the joints was in very bad shape I couldn't flex it at all. Replaced both joints and solved the darting problem. I didn't think they would effect the steering because of the manual hubs, but even in two wheel drive the u-joints have to flex when you turn. Not saying its the problem,but might be worth taking a look. Good luck

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Your caster is likely the problem, it should be around +5*. Find out what the factory spec is and get it back in that range.

I'd recommend removing the lift shackles as they decrease caster and negatively affect pinion angle, and often introduce increased side-to-side movement of the front axle.

 

[69jeepcj]

x2 on removing the 2" shackles.. what happens is your springs are mounted to the frame at both ends and the axle sits in the middle of them, and by adding longer shackles you are lowering the one end of the springs which tilts the axle in that direction. the tilting of the axle not only changes your caster, but changes the angle that your drive shaft u-joint are working in. You can add longer shackles with in reason with out too much affect, but I hear that 2" is about the limit. I have seen jeeps, and sami's with like 4"- 6" shackles and it looked like a death trap.

 

[PoliceMonkey161]

Thanks to everyone! Really great advice/things to look for. I did change the shackles this past weekend to 1" and I have seen good improvement. I could actually watch the axle move forward as the vehicle was lowered onto the new shackles. Upon inspecting the spring plates while I was under there, I have no caster shims currently. I believe the new spring have them included, should be arriving this afternoon.

I have my suspicions about the gear box? The previous owner has tried to adjust the tension nut on the top (I can see were the paint was worn away from the allen key and box wrench). So that is on my list either way for replacement along with new hoses.

 

[69jeepcj]

Don't be diappointed if you new springs dont come with shims, they are usually not required with 2" lift. The 4" lift should include them. Only the manual boxes are adjustable as far as I know, and adjusting it usually don't help much in my experience. Just wanted to give you a heads up on the shims probably not being included in you kit.

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Spring perch shims are generally not needed and not recommended on the front of a Jeep. Put stock length shackles on the Jeep and you will see the best improvement.

There are much better methods of obtaining tire clearance than longer shackles.

Have somebody move the steering wheel back and forth and watch for sideways action of the front shackles. Shorter shackles = tighter steering and better caster.

 

[69jeepcj]

agree! I would not put shims on the front. Accident waiting to happen in my opinion.

 

[DOUBLEC]

Thanks to everyone! Really great advice/things to look for. I did change the shackles this past weekend to 1" and I have seen good improvement. I could actually watch the axle move forward as the vehicle was lowered onto the new shackles. Upon inspecting the spring plates while I was under there, I have no caster shims currently. I believe the new spring have them included, should be arriving this afternoon.

I have my suspicions about the gear box? The previous owner has tried to adjust the tension nut on the top (I can see were the paint was worn away from the allen key and box wrench). So that is on my list either way for replacement along with new hoses.

Ok, first time contributor. I have a 77 cj7 with manual steering box, 33 x 12.50 with a 4" - 5" lift. No problems except I had to adjust the stops out to keep the tires rubbung when turning, limits your turning ratio. I had the same issues with severe bump travel, sometimes into on coming traffic. Turned out to be my gear box adjustment. All of the items listed is good advise but since you mentioned the PO messed with the gear box adjustment I would bet this is the real problem.