Electric Fans

[MORGSTER]

716000

I have a 1989 Wrangler, with all the lift, tire, offroad goodies. It has a 4.2 with borla exhaust, jacobs ignition, etc.. One of my biggest concerns is hot running vehicles. At this point I have only a little increase in heat during the summer on steep grades. Now here's the question. Factual input is requested about replacing the stock fan with an electric unit. I understand the stock one is completely removed, with a minimal power increase but what tempature changes have you had at idle, in traffic, cruising and rock crawling.? Is it worth the $250 plus dollars for the Quadratec "Flex-A-Lite" unit? Thanks for your help.

[This message has been edited by MORGSTER (edited July 29, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by MORGSTER (edited July 31, 2001).]

 

[sillsmack]

717000

I'd be reluctant to replace the mechanical fan with an electric because....

You're 40 miles offpavement working a tough hard rock trail banging about here N there. It's 98 degrees and your engine temp is running abit high as your making about 4 mph and then.....

The electric lets out a howl and dies !!!

HOW YOU GONNA GET BACK TO CIVILIZATION ?!?!?
AAA don't make trail calls!

It's unlikely a mechanical will quit on you. Belt maybe..of course you carry a spare belt right ? The mechanical will keep on keepin on..

I'd recommend an electric aux fan to help out when it is 98 degrees out and your making 4 mph...

 

[Justicewolf]

718000

Very true, and it is a good idea to have belts with you at all times anyway. (see the how to section for an under seat tray) I have had no cooling problems with the mechanical fan on either of my Jeeps (a "94,4 banger and an "89, 6) Actually runs a little on the cool side especially in the winter when I want the heat!

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Life is a journey, take it.

 

[Justicewolf]

719000

Plus if it is an 1898 you probaly don't want to take it off-road any way.

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Life is a journey, take it.

 

[MORGSTER]

720000

GOOD EYES! IT'S TUFF GETTING OLD

 

[MORGSTER]

721000

Here is an update: I left the stock fan and clutch in place,(for security) and I removed the bug screen.(to increase air flow) Then the add on transmission cooler (also to increase air flow) that was installed in front of the air conditioning, and then the stock radiator. I reinstalled the transmission lines back through the origional radiator cooler, and finally installed a 13 inch (swiched for now)trimline pusher fan just inside the grill. The results were great! Just removing the bug screen and the trans cooler lowered the normal running temp back down to approx 195 degrees, and with the fan running, the temp stayed the same during stop and go traffic and all day idling while rock crawling in the desert.
Note: The transmission temp was the same, even after removing the cooler, it seams it is now cooling through the stock set up better, because the stock set up is! cooling better.

[ September 16, 2001: Message edited by: Morgster ]

 

[MORGSTER]

722000

An aditional comment is the 13 inch fan was only $45.00. That savings, along with the reassurance of also having the stock pully fan setup, is better to me, than the possible horsepower gains, advertised by the dual $250.00 replacement fan set up would be. (For now?)

 

[MORGSTER]

723000

P.S. Sillsmack....Thanks for the idea

 

[jprtroy]

1040021

Sounds like the issue has been solved. My story goes; Been there done that. I tried running my CJ-5 with only an electric fan (18"huge) motor heated up right quick in a hurry! Nixxed that idea. Next, mounted a flex fan. It's still in and working fine. My whole cooling issure started from the fan clutch being bad, and not knowing it.
Since then (about 5yrs back) I've rebuilt the engin, added the Mopar multiport fuel injection, a T-18 w/granny, 4:10's (had the ARB in the back, & powerLok up front) 2" body lift, 4" suspension lift, 33" BFG MT's, 3 core radiator, bombproof motor mounts. On board welder (Link-arc, not a fake unit) ans on-board air.
The orignal 2 core radiator that came stock worked great for the first 12yrs I've had her, but sadly it started to not work great, causing the fan clutch (same vintage as radiator) to start to work harder (more) and as a result, it failed. Cooling problem!
After my rebuild, no cooling prob's now.
The use of an electric fan as a secondary cooing fan is a good idea, specially if you have an automatic. Automatics generate an enormous amount of heat and when at trail speeds, theres not much cooling taking effect. If one lives in a colder climate, an auto might be able to cope, but out here in CA. the temps on the trails can reach in the hundreds. Auto's need to be cooled!

Enough rambling.... You all get the picture.

Later...


[addsig]

 

[ODAX]

1059654

should i be insulted? or better yet should my rig be insulted? please explain why i should not or can not take my 89 yj on trails. did i miss something ? ......odax :-x :-x :-x [addsig]

 

[carriss]

1059655

i've heard that those old stock metal fans take 17 Horses off the engine i thought about a eletric fans but i did'nt wana fool with it so i got to looking at light and durable fans and i found a "Flex-a-lite" 400 series it's nylon it says it's good up to 8,000 RPMs so thats my suggestion( i can't spell he he) :evil: [addsig]

 

[Jeepr89]

1059666

Morgster: If you want to get it cooler put in a cooler t-stat. I put in a 160 and my 89YJ is like a new animal. And it only costs about ten bucks :-D [addsig]

 

[bluebelle]

1059676

The electric fan offers much better cooling if and only if you match the needed airflow with the engine configuration. That’s usually the problem - any fan won't do. Get the strongest pulling fan that'll fit behind the radiator. For example, the Flex-a-Lite company makes the Black Majic fan that pulls 2200 cfm. That’s more than some flex fans. Running electric fans on big block engines gets very pricy, but we’ve got small blocks that can easily be managed with electrics.

Besides relieving the engine of the burden of twisting yet another device with the crank, electric fans

1. consume less fuel because the engine isn’t twisting the fan
2. relieve stress on the water pump increasing its life span
3. let the engine run cooler as the engine no longer has to turn the fan
4. release lost power to where you want it – at the wheels.

By the way, flex fans are known to fly apart at a much higher frequency than electric motors are known to fail.

And if you want to think of the reliability of an electric fan motor leaving you stuck in the boonies . . . just how are you handling the other eletronics such as the alternator, the many sensors in a fuel injection system, and the electric fuel pump??

More and more new vehicles are equipped with electric fans for good reason. Look into the research before jumping to conculsion. This argument reminds me of when people put the plastic milk container in the paper bag because they don’t want to polute – inconsistant.
[addsig]

 

[MORGSTER]

1059679

Update since original post:

During a hot spell here in California, I noticed the temp gauge reading about 220, which is higher than usual. Always keeping my Jeep in good running order, I decided to go through my complete system and replaced the radiator, water pump, thermostat, hoses, coolant. (A benefit of having a Jeep for years is replacment parts under warranty at no cost)
All of these changes made no difference in the temp reading. Leaving only a few options other than internal problems, I decided to replace the temp sender. (Solved)Now it runs 195 degrees all day all night, no change. (195 degree t-stat)

Never thought the sender would create a false reading. I was used to working or not)[addsig]

 

[MORGSTER]

1059680

Jeeper89

Getting a good operating motor to run cool really isn't a problem and too cool is not always the right thing to do. Remember the Jeep has a computer, which needs a (195? approx) degree thermostat to operate the systems properly. My thought is to run electric fan or fans for consistent cooling at slow (Rock Crawling) speeds while offroading. 120+ degree (Summer) outside air temps can wreak havoc on cooling. The system is originally designed to handle it, but age and mileage usually hinder that a bit. I am looking for information (People who actually use these fans for primary cooling) about the quality of cooling, noise from electric fans, and relialability over stock and horsepower or torque gains. Is it really worth the cost?

Thanks for your input
[addsig]

 

[bluebelle]

1059685

Morgster, i have the black magic on my 92 6 cyl ho with a new rad, h20 pump and a good flush 100k on the mileage. I run 200-ish. Remember that the factory manual calls for a thermostat that opens at 195 degrees. These computer-controlled engines only have a small variance for efficient power delivery.

Good luck.
[addsig]

 

[MORGSTER]

1059688

Bluebelle:

Good reply.
Obviously new vehicles are equipped with electric fans that are reliable and probably add to fuel efficiency too. But these are usually small, high reving motors in light cars. That are not used for Idle speeds in 120 degree temps for 8 hours at a time out in the boonies.
My son just said. If it works so good, why don't they put electric fans on the new Jeeps? (I said good one, find out and let me know..... Kids, ya gotta love em)

There seem to be good points for both sides.
I guess I'll just have to install one and see for myself.

:-D :roll: :-O ;-) [addsig]

 

[bluebelle]

1059690

You’ll have to forgive me; my experience is building high horse big blocks in 60's fords. this is my first jeep. The physics around gas engines is fairly consistent so one should apply to another. My drive has always been to squeeze every last hp out of that block, so that's why the electric fan forum caught my eye.

I found some good research on the flex-a-late web page http://www.flex-a-lite.com
They sell both manual and electric and presented both + and -'s fair.

You may want to ask your son (yes, you gotta love 'em for we were there too. we have 4 ourselves) to remember that the jeep was made to make money as a primary goal. The fact that we can have so much fun is secondary.

By the way, did you know that there was a factory-installed restrictor in the air box that pops out increasing your airflow by at least 100%? Cool trick i learned about on line. I’ll walk you through the removal if you're interested
[addsig]

 

[MORGSTER]

1059693

Bluebelle:

Did you install the electric fan or did it come with your Jeep?
Did you remove the stock fan,clutch and shroud?
If so was there any noticable power difference or noise?
Is the new electric fan hooked up to a thermostat for automatic on and off?
Is your electric fan a puller mounted between the radiator and the motor?
Are you using a fan shroud?
If you had to do it over would you spend the money?

Thanks, Morgster [addsig]

 

[MORGSTER]

1059695

By the way, my son is 5 years old going on 30. [addsig]