Hey ya'll. I have an english paper that I have to write about an argument that there may be opposing sides to. I chose "why don't offroad vehicles have more legal trail use in my town." Not one trail is legal. I use them anyway. Now I know you don't live here but what in your opinion would be a good pro and con about trail use (land use) I am just curious to see what you say. Please any help is great. Thanks
English Paper on land use
- Thread starter bryanjeep
- Start date
ToxicTurtle
New member
Hooo boy.... picked the wrong topic to post on any board where I happen to surf... :wink:
As you can see by my sig, I wear many hats, many of them in the land use arena.
The first BIGGEST argument FOR closing areas is: already existing, ILLEGAL wheeling. When you run somewhere that is closed, it only gives the people trying to close more areas more ammunition to close them... They say.." See, this area is off limits, yet, they (the OHV community as a whole) can't self police and they are still riding here... how can they be trusted to use ANY area responsibly."
Anytime anyone goes into an area that is closed to motorized use, whether people "don't get caught there very often" or not, it gives EVERY single responsible 4 wheeler a harder time in fighting to keep areas open... up here in New England, there are several initiatives going on to try to get several State Forests in MA, that are currently OPEN to OHV use, turned over to the Feds and used as National Forests... The statement has already been made, that all National Forests in MA will be NON Motorized.... That means that at least 6 roads that I can now legally run, will be shut down. When I step up to make an argument that we (the OHV community) should be allowed into these new National Forests (IF they come about), the exact argument is... " They are loud, spew noxious gasses, their drivers litter, they start fires, they tear up the ground,they don't stay on designated trails/roads, they are irresponsible, etc... Just plain Bad people"
Now, I can give a whole lot of examples of what we do to not be seen that way... We air down our tires to give a larger "footprint" and not affect the ground so much (less weight per sq inch), we limit the number of attempts on an obstacle, we do regular trail maintanence and clean ups, we do community service projects that keep us in a good light in the public eye, we write letters to our congresscritters, we spend lots of money in the towns we visit and stay in, we stay on the designated trails and roads and DO NOT go into sensitive areas or closed areas/roads, trails.....etc...
Not one is legal... I use them anyway... You can pretty much give the argument to someone else to fight for you cuz you wouldn't be able to rightly argue those aforementioned points w/o being a hypocrite. :roll:
Don't wanna sound mean here... its something I (and of course the other 4WD organizations) fight continuously here in New England and we get tired of fighting ourselves, its also something I've been involved in for over 15 years and I can get rather fired up about it.
If you have any questions you'd like particulars for, please ask... or email me (E4WBrill@aol.com) and I will help.
Talk soon,
As you can see by my sig, I wear many hats, many of them in the land use arena.
The first BIGGEST argument FOR closing areas is: already existing, ILLEGAL wheeling. When you run somewhere that is closed, it only gives the people trying to close more areas more ammunition to close them... They say.." See, this area is off limits, yet, they (the OHV community as a whole) can't self police and they are still riding here... how can they be trusted to use ANY area responsibly."
Anytime anyone goes into an area that is closed to motorized use, whether people "don't get caught there very often" or not, it gives EVERY single responsible 4 wheeler a harder time in fighting to keep areas open... up here in New England, there are several initiatives going on to try to get several State Forests in MA, that are currently OPEN to OHV use, turned over to the Feds and used as National Forests... The statement has already been made, that all National Forests in MA will be NON Motorized.... That means that at least 6 roads that I can now legally run, will be shut down. When I step up to make an argument that we (the OHV community) should be allowed into these new National Forests (IF they come about), the exact argument is... " They are loud, spew noxious gasses, their drivers litter, they start fires, they tear up the ground,they don't stay on designated trails/roads, they are irresponsible, etc... Just plain Bad people"
Now, I can give a whole lot of examples of what we do to not be seen that way... We air down our tires to give a larger "footprint" and not affect the ground so much (less weight per sq inch), we limit the number of attempts on an obstacle, we do regular trail maintanence and clean ups, we do community service projects that keep us in a good light in the public eye, we write letters to our congresscritters, we spend lots of money in the towns we visit and stay in, we stay on the designated trails and roads and DO NOT go into sensitive areas or closed areas/roads, trails.....etc...
Good question.... and you answered it yourself...
Not one is legal... I use them anyway... You can pretty much give the argument to someone else to fight for you cuz you wouldn't be able to rightly argue those aforementioned points w/o being a hypocrite. :roll:
Don't wanna sound mean here... its something I (and of course the other 4WD organizations) fight continuously here in New England and we get tired of fighting ourselves, its also something I've been involved in for over 15 years and I can get rather fired up about it.
If you have any questions you'd like particulars for, please ask... or email me (E4WBrill@aol.com) and I will help.
Talk soon,
ToxicTurtle
New member
dingus said:
The probable reason these roads/trails are closed is overuse or abuse by people probably before bryanjeep was born... I'm not saying HE is soley responsible for that by any means... Another reason could be economical... If a road is deteriorating faster than a township can fix it, it doesn't make sence to many of them to keep up the road, so they close it/abandon it. That often reverts the land next to it back to the landowners who abbut the old road. Another reason for closing a road can be liability... again, can't afford to fix the road, close it and avoid the risk of someone saying "that rut/pothole/rock/etc damaged my vehicle, now I'm gonna make the town pay to fix my vehicle".
Your point is something that many groups are trying to bring to their state legislatures... If we have somewhere to go and drive/ride responsibly, we won't drive where we, often unknowingly, aren't supposed to be...
Long uphill fight...
Talk soon,
Tug-n-pull
New member
OK hit a nerve so I have a couple of things to say on the subject! Around here there are trails and then there are The Trails! The trails are pretty much good and you can ride em any time you wnat to.
Then there are The Trails, Some of The Trails are just now open for the annual Hunting Season. Bear and Deer are the subject of the season. The Trails open for these crackers and their sport! However I can not get out there at other times cause well I am an Off Roader and My sport is not so special as the Hunters sport is! That ticks tug off!
So For the next couple of months I shall take my ol fat tail and hit the newly opend trails every chance I get. Now I get this guilt trip from the hunters about well you are going to disturb the hunters out there with that ol Jeep on the special hunters trails trying to get a buck or bear. Well Tug says TOOOOO BADDD! I can only see these trails during season so I will see them then.
I also live right off the Appalachian Trail, Open for all the hikers from all over the world. They can do their thing year around and have a great place to hike. All good! We have trails for horses only all year they can ride their horse, ever see what horse hoofs do to a trail in an incline. Bad as swampers over time. Then we have the 4 wheelers and their little radical mud slinger rut digging tires with he motorcross bikes weaven and screaming and tearing up the trails but no one will let me go there in my jeep. Then there are the areas where you are not suppost to go at all. Dang it all anyway!
Folks all I am trying to say is share and share alike. I love hikers and hunters and horsemen and 4 wheelers. I even partake of many of these sports. Just don't give to the special intrest groups and not give to some of the others. Sorry I got carried away but there is the View from where I live. tug :x
Then there are The Trails, Some of The Trails are just now open for the annual Hunting Season. Bear and Deer are the subject of the season. The Trails open for these crackers and their sport! However I can not get out there at other times cause well I am an Off Roader and My sport is not so special as the Hunters sport is! That ticks tug off!
So For the next couple of months I shall take my ol fat tail and hit the newly opend trails every chance I get. Now I get this guilt trip from the hunters about well you are going to disturb the hunters out there with that ol Jeep on the special hunters trails trying to get a buck or bear. Well Tug says TOOOOO BADDD! I can only see these trails during season so I will see them then.
I also live right off the Appalachian Trail, Open for all the hikers from all over the world. They can do their thing year around and have a great place to hike. All good! We have trails for horses only all year they can ride their horse, ever see what horse hoofs do to a trail in an incline. Bad as swampers over time. Then we have the 4 wheelers and their little radical mud slinger rut digging tires with he motorcross bikes weaven and screaming and tearing up the trails but no one will let me go there in my jeep. Then there are the areas where you are not suppost to go at all. Dang it all anyway!
Folks all I am trying to say is share and share alike. I love hikers and hunters and horsemen and 4 wheelers. I even partake of many of these sports. Just don't give to the special intrest groups and not give to some of the others. Sorry I got carried away but there is the View from where I live. tug :x
I know that where I live, that's a sensitive issue. There's many trails that are now closed. I give credit to the 4 wheel drive clubs that work to keep these trails open. On the other hand, there's these treehugginbarkmunchers that have nothin better to do than protest everything they can think of. They don't have jobs and they use protesting as an excuse to not work and collect welfare....they're too busy gettin stoned and holding up signs. Why should I have to work and pay taxes to support some jobless bumb? What I'm getting at here is the protesters who go out to shut down the logging roads because they don't want to hurt a tree. By shutting down these roads, we can't get in there either. Last year, the tree huggers blew up one of our favorite trails. This was a deactivated logging road that went up to some hotsprings in the mountains. The loggers took the time to pipe these hotsprings into actual hot tubs in the middle of the mountains. It's been used by 4 wheel drive clubs for years. Now that the tree huggers blew up the side of the hill over the road, it's no longer passable unless you want to hike and camp for a day. We've had to cancel or change trips because of these people. I understand the point they are trying to get across but it has been proven that logging and replanting is a good thing as long as it's done in the right way. It's actually good for the forests. As far as us bringing in our 4 wheel drives, as long as we don't abuse the land and area and clean up after ourselves, I don't see the problem. Sorry, I'm just sick of busting my butt at work every day and paying high taxes so some jobless bumb can sit on his butt, smoke dope, collect his welfare that my tax money has paid for and in return tries to shut down my roads and put people out of work.
I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make there.dingus said:
But thanks to everyone who gave their input here. I will incorporate some of it into the paper. Don't worry guys, I will use that stupid MLA citation stuff. The problems in my town will be here to stay it seems as we have gone from a small country town to a fairly large New Orleans suburb. The problem isn't a road issue. It is just the fact that us 4 wheelers can't go off-pavement in almost most areas. My favorite spot for years to go hang out, make a fire, 4 wheel, or even just think alone has been underneath some power lines. Cops use to be cool with it. They would even come out there and talk to us (one actually asked us, jokingly, to call him when the hot girls get out there). But the tables have turned.
Now, the richest guy in Slidell has bought out that land (which I like to call mine) to build yet another neighborhood nearby. It really isnt that close to the power lines, besides building wont start for another year. He hired a cop to sit out before the trail and not let ANYBODY through. Now, if I will ever meet this guy who is building the neighborhood, I would love to tell him a poiece of my mind. I would bring up the point that I have gone out there for years and not ruined the land or trashed it.
It is things like these that really get us 4 wheelers upset around here. We are forced to go find other places to ride and most of the time they are illegal. Or you can drive 150 miles roundtrip to Mississippi and go pay $25+ to use an offroad park. Most 4x4's don't want to get on the interstate though.
OK, I have gone on and on enough here, so I think I am going to stop. This is a topic that has NO end. Thanks guys, Bryan
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