Tom the Peeper just won't go away!

[83CJ701DakRT]

redrooster, you read my post right. I know it's not the brightest thing to do, leave a loaded gun off safety. The wife knows it's there and there are no little rug rats around yet. I figure that I'll need as much time as possible to get a shot off, even if it's a split second as the intruder is trying to wrestle the gun out of my hand, one less thing to take care of at the time.......Mikey

 

[TwistedCU]

Lets remember the Bernard Getz was on a subway, not in his home. Bernard Getz was carrying a firearm illegally, as he did not have a carry permit. Bernard Getz broke several laws, and I believe some or all of the kids he shot did not have firearms.

Mace is illegal in MD, but you can get pepper spray if you really want to piss the guy off.

I will strongly agree with the point made that if you are uncertain of your ability to use a firearm (if you're not sure if you could pull the trigger) then by all means don't get one. They are not what you want to use to bluff someone, as mentioned earlier it could very well get turned around to you.

Always leave the safety on. My guns are not loaded, the safetys are on, and they are under lock and key so they are not only secure, but out of sight also. I have an excellent watchdog dog who would give me ample time to become armed if needed. Yes I do have children in the home, but I had them that way when I was unmarried and had no kids.

 

[joejeepny]

Hey lady I have a video recorder that records a week at a time on one 120 tapes and you can skim through the recording fast. I also have a few cameras hanging around and an 8-channel video splitter. I would be glad to lend them to you to catch this pric_. I have a pin hole camera he will never see. If you email me at grandbrass@hotmail.com with your address i will ups it to you and you can give it back after you get his pict. I had a similiar problem with a secluded house in the woods. I also use it to catch subleters in my appartment building. I will tell you the truth though I did not catch the kids robbing my house with the camera. I think I would Have but the cops actually did. My alarm recorded the times of breakins and the cops were able to get a pattern. They staked out the house on a thursday night and got them. Keep calling the police. The only problem is this guy didnt do any thing yet. The police get more interested once a crime has been commited then preventing one. My house was broken into every week. It wound up being my next door neighbor. Its hard to prosecute someone for not doing anything. If you would like I could help you with a motion detector with a bulb you could plug in and hang out your window.

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

Joe

That is very sweet of you, for sure. I can't believe there are still people in the world as good as those on Jeepz.

Let me see what I can do on my own in the next few weeks and then I'll see if I need more help.

Yesterday I trimmed the hedges on that side of the house so that there is more view from the street. Last week I pasted shelving paper to the inside of the window. A friend and I nailed both bedroom windows shut too. I had an old bedframe outside the rear of my house and over two months ago the police suggested I get rid of it in case it was aiding his work. I did that yesterday, finally. I can't tell where or if he came back this week.

I also bought a motion light with two floodlights. Problem is it is one that has to be wired so I've got to take it back and find another. I decided to try and get one up even if the landlord doesn't like it. I need one that plugs in though so I can run a utility cord up through the eaves or somewhere and then down to a plug.

Twisted I do want some mace/pepper spray. I knew the mace itself was illegeal in MD and I had heard pepper spray wasn't effective but like you said I'm sure it can burn some and make them mad.

I am going to hold off on the gun, as mentioned earlier. For those concerned about me and a gun I certainly wouldn't keep on around without some training and knowledge. I'm just not that kind of person.

I do believe though that If this guy came in my house without a gun, I'd slice him up or get a few punches in! Good thing I'm not too frail and I'm quite po'd. I'm not worried about hurting him, I just wouldn't want to kill someone.

So, I'll let you know Joe. Thank you so much for your generous offer. I am speechless.

Lady

 

[mingez]

Just a note, Oakland Ca has a very high percentage of gun owners both legal and Illegal. Those firearms aren't detouring anyone. Albuquerque has a ton of guns as well, and even more crime.

High percentage of gun owners or high percentage of gun owners with a LEGAL right to carry permit?

What's the difference? Fact is, you break into a person's home in Oakland, you better have on some kevlar. But that knowledge still isn't enough of a deterrent.

--Don't get me wrong, I say blow the bastards away.

There is a big difference. That difference is a legally armed citizen has nothing to lose for defending him/herself.

Problem with Oakland is it has been lawless for too long. It would take years to take back areas like that. It would have to start with armed citizens in the surrounding areas.

********
Redrooster - I hope I am never in that position, but good for you! Tou probably saved some innocent people's lives.

And those who aren't legally armed citizens have something to lose? Trust me, these people aren't concerned with getting sued. They aren't concerned with going to jail. You said it yourself...they are lawless. Thus, they could give a damn about the consequences of using firearms illegally. So again...there's not as much differrence as you think. A dude breaks into a house in Oakland, they just have to watch out for getting capped...whether by a registered user or a felon..everyone protects their home.

I guarantee you, if you break into Huan Ye's house (Triad leader) he's not going to concern himself about whether he can LEGALLY shoot you or not. Do you think Mr. "Wannabe Tupac" is going to think twice? You're just going to be shot.

I don't buy that argument...just my opinion. If that were the case, non gun using countries would have much higher crime rates than we do, and not a single one does...NONE. The numbers don't lie.

 

[TwistedCU]

Lady I just hope this guy gets caught and soon :wink:

And those who aren't legally armed citizens have something to lose? Trust me, these people aren't concerned with getting sued. They aren't concerned with going to jail. You said it yourself...they are lawless....

I don't buy that argument...just my opinion. If that were the case, non gun using countries would have much higher crime rates than we do, and not a single one does...NONE. The numbers don't lie.

HA! Look at London, or most of Europe where the citizenry (and even the police in most cases) have been disarmed. Crime is skyrocketing.

You're right, numbers dont lie. Another one to look at is the states that have given right to carry permits to law abiding citizens. Crime is down.
I will be happy to (and will) support that when I have more time.

Yes, those who are not legally armed have much to lose.

Those who are armed illegally can lose their freedom (jail)
Those who are just plain unarmed can lose everything.

You speak of areas where there is predominant lawlessness. I speak of the majority of the country, where there is a threat of becoming like the ones you speak of.

As to the "lawless" areas that you are referring to, than can be brought to order, but it will take an armed citizenry, laws to support them, and alot of time. The old west was once considered lawless, then became civilized through our constitutional rights and courts to support them. Those rights have been taken away, the courts have become soft, the law enforcement has as a result become ineffective and now lawlessness once again reigns.

The old adage "know your history or you are bound to repeat it" surely applies here.

 

[mingez]

HA! Look at London, or most of Europe where the citizenry (and even the police in most cases) have been disarmed. Crime is skyrocketing.

I beg to differ... Crime rate is raising, but at a much slower rate. There were only double digit murders in most every major metro area, I'll have to look London up specifically

I will be happy to (and will) support that when I have more time.

You know I'm game....I'll always come up with the numbers. I did so in another thread on this very subject..i'll have to dig those up.

Yes, those who are not legally armed have much to lose.

Those who are armed illegally can lose their freedom (jail)

BUT, people who are of the demographic to carry arms illegally are not exactly concerned with the possibility of losing their freedom. They are typically not of the ilk to be concerned with ANY law.


My point is not that the rest of the country needs to look at Oakland as an example of how to be, but rather that the logic of adding guns to reduce crime is not necessarily a curber of crime activity. There are many more factors that need to be considered to determine whether that is a viable solution to the problem. Again, I'm not saying that there is necessarily anything wrong with guns (owned responsibly).

AND trust me when I say that if I was a criminal, I'd chose to break into your home before I'd pick a home in west Oakland. Any of them.

I like this TC, it's like the Good 'Ol Days!!! You know where this'll end up ... us just agreeing to disagree and light hearted PM's calling eachother "Pinko" and "Facist". LOL :lol:

 

[TwistedCU]

You're right, numbers dont lie. Another one to look at is the states that have given right to carry permits to law abiding citizens. Crime is down.
I will be happy to (and will) support that when I have more time.

Let me start by saying that if I learned anything in my Statistics class in college, I learned that you can prove or disprove just about anything using statistics when you mold and shape the object for which the statistics are derived from. I will try my best to use facts here.

A few facts:
The U.S. constitution, the constitutions of 44 states, and the laws of all 50 states recognize the right to use arms in self-defense.

The states with the 5 lowest crime rates have right to carry laws.

The RTC laws are a growing trend. In 1987 there were 10 RTC states. Today there are 38. This trend has had a direct impact on lowering crime in these states and the nation abroad. As a matter of fact, the violent crime rate in the United States has dropped annually since 1991 and is now at a 22-year low. And murder is at a 35-year low.

Ah, just a bogus statistic you say? well ask the feds:

www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm

Not a bad start!

We're not crime-free, and we never will be, but an armed citizenry is a deterrent to crime and will lower crime over time.

In Alaska and Vermont, you don't even need to carry a permit to excercise your constitutional right to bear arms. :wink:

Mingez, although as you stated earlier, New Mexico has a horrible crime rate even though they have RTC laws. You will be pleased to know that New Mexico is one of the latest states to enact their RTC laws (2003). It was challenged and went to the (state) Supreme Court, which upheld their new laws on Jan 6, 2004. I am confident that over a few years, the crime rate will begin to drop there as well.
GIVE IT SOME TIME!!!


Here is a breakdown of RTC states:

 

[TwistedCU]

AND trust me when I say that if I was a criminal, I'd chose to break into your home before I'd pick a home in west Oakland. Any of them.

If you get past the dog, which you probably won't, not even Kevlar won't help you against what comes next :wink:

As to the crime rates in Eu, up is up and down is down. I'd prefer them dropping slowly than rising slowly anyday.

You're right, I do enjoy a good debate with ya Mingez! I just don't know how LadyJeepFreak and the rest feel about us hijacking this thread.

Kinda late to be thinking that way, but mayhaps we should finish it on it's own thread???

 

[mingez]

AND trust me when I say that if I was a criminal, I'd chose to break into your home before I'd pick a home in west Oakland. Any of them.

If you get past the dog, which you probably won't, not even Kevlar won't help you against what comes next :wink:

As to the crime rates in Eu, up is up and down is down. I'd prefer them dropping slowly than rising slowly anyday.

You're right, I do enjoy a good debate with ya Mingez! I just don't know how LadyJeepFreak and the rest feel about us hijacking this thread.

Kinda late to be thinking that way, but mayhaps we should finish it on it's own thread???

Hahaha...first off, If I could easily get past the dog, because I'd shower that cute puppy with a big hug and hell of a lot of treats. I saw "Bobbi", she's adorable. Then while she's knawing on the steak I left her, you'd shoot me with whatever gun you have in your arsenal. (If it were me, I'd be using the Benilli 12 gauge I just bought) BUT, as an idiot criminal, I didn't know you were strapped-which is my point. Where I'm from, a guy wouldn't even consider it....period.

Now, looking at the statistics, and hearing your very strong arguement, I'll defenitely have a retort to come soon. I'm tired and have a trying Labor Day sale to get through at the furniture store I manage tommorrow, but there's a definete.... "To be continued" on the table.

Sorry folks for the Hijack, TC's right, we should start our own. So shoot us with your concealed weapons why don't you?!:lol:

 

[Craig]

I'd just get a nice, protective dog such as a German Shepard or something. They're good with kids if you have any, they're territorial and can be easily trained as a guard dog.

 

[joejeepny]

Just to add a little note. I believe in our right to bare arms but a word of caution. The odds of you having a gun accident are far greater then you being assaulted by a criminal with a gun. Look that statistic up. Accidents happen with guns. I am a victim of a gun accident and no I did not shoot myself. I was at a party and the host was showing his gun collection. Someone asked to see the gun he carries. When he took it out of the holster and he was disarming it, it went off. He was pointing it down but it still hit me in the leg. It was a colt 45 with hydra-shocks. This combination of gun and ammunition has some serious stopping power. The army designed the 45 to take limbs off. I could have died or lost my leg but I knew some first aid and was the only sensible one in the room after it happened and saved my own life. My leg forever feels like it has fallen asleep though and I am slightly disabled for life. If you own a gun please be careful. Would you be able to feel good about yourself after you have killed or maimed a family member or friend by accident. Or even a kid robbing your house. Would you want to really kill him. What if it was your dumb kid.
If a criminal catches you by surprise and he has a gun your best bet is not to go for yours. Don’t even look at him. Tell him you never saw his face and he should take what he wants and please go away. Or best bet if you see a gun or someone in your house RUN and MAKE NOISE. A criminal with a gun will shoot you faster then you will run the thought of shooting him through your head. And if your sneaking around with your gun trying to shoot him you would be better firing off a round to scare him away then get in a shoot out. If he knows you have a gun he might leave. If you meet him face to face you might get shot. Its easy to die. It doesn’t take much. One major artery and you might not make it. Give me a machine gun to protect our civil rights but I will take a large air-horn or alarm system and a hammer to protect myself at home.

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

Honestly, I don't midn the hijack guys. Enjoy your debate. It doesn't bother me a whit.

8) Lady

 

[TwistedCU]

Joe, that was most certainly an unfortunate thing that happened to you, and yes you were extremely fortunate that you did not end up in much worse condition, but it was a result of someone not being responsible. Why the heck did anyone have a gun loaded in the first palce?

People are killed every day by people being irresponsible, be it by car, gun, falling off a ladder, or any number of things people do when they take thier minds off what they are doing.

It is not our government's responsibility nor their place to protect us from ourselves. Guns are dangerous when used irresponsibly, yet so are many things in the home - i.e. a trashbag around a toddler.

Merely owning a gun is not being irresponsible. Not knowing safe practices and following them is completely irresponsible.

This is a common arguement against private ownership of guns but the simple fact remains that is not just cause for making firearms illegal. You state that the odds of having a gun accident are far greater than being assaulted by a criminal with a gun. This is one of those statistics I was referring to earlier, and even if you could back that up with some type of fact I would still prefer to make choices for myself then have the government act like my mother.

If a "kid", or anyone else for that matter, was robbing my house, no I would not want to kill him. I would, however confront him. There are many scenarios that could play out in a situation like that, and I am not going to go through them all, but I have no desire to fire a weapon at anyone. That would be a terrible thing and of course it would be a last resort.

Oh, and my kid(s) are anything but dumb. :wink:

BUT, as an idiot criminal, I didn't know you were strapped-which is my point. Where I'm from, a guy wouldn't even consider it....period.

Mingez, so you do agree that guns are a deterrent to crime after all!?!?

NEXT

Oh, and by the way, what would come after the dog would be a run to the local beer store and a bushel of Maryland steamed crabs!!!

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

Been talking about this with my bro, the lumberjack (some of you know him and his intimidating size). He is going to help me purchase a pellet gun of sorts. I guess they are not quite a real gun but do hurt. I am going to take off all the window coverings for a couple of nights and then have him over for a stay one night. If I catch the guy in the window again, I'm going to pellet him in the face!

Motion lights, were working on that too. Got to find someone to wire them up. I bought some though.

P.S. IF I can catch him at it when Zeb is here, he'll run his arse down and hold him till the cops arrive.

Lady

 

[mingez]

BUT, as an idiot criminal, I didn't know you were strapped-which is my point. Where I'm from, a guy wouldn't even consider it....period.

Mingez, so you do agree that guns are a deterrent to crime after all!?!?

NEXT

Uh, NO I didn't...typical conservatives... :lol: That statement was there to refute the Illegal arms vs. Legal arms arguement. It doesn't matter whether the place in question is Oakland vs. 'Small town" Texas. Oakland has a high percentage of armed citizenry, be it legal or illegal, and yet crime remains a problem. It's not a sufficient deterrent for criminals. Now for me (a non-criminal) yeah, it's a deterrent, but I'd never break into a person's house. I'm not looking for a drug fix, or going hungry due to poverty, or whatever motivates most CRIMINALS. I don't have the same kind of motivations that a criminal might have. Thus, your attempt at using my statement against my arguement is pointless.

So you can take that "NEXT" back and put it in yer pocket there big fella. :lol:

Hey just as a reminder, I'm not for the illegalization of guns. I'm just stating the fact that the theory of having an armed citizenry as a crime deterrent is not necessarily true...that's all. I just bought a Benelli shotgun last week. (For Dove Hunting and Turkey Hunting)

On the other side of that, I don't think that RTC laws are increasing crime either!! It neither helps nor hinders.


Anywhoo, I think where your logic is flawed is that, as a percentage, guns are bigger killers than say: trashbags and other house hold items. A gun's sole purpose for being, is to KILL. But I do agree with your "Keep mother government out of my bathtub" logic. Yes, it's true we don't need bigger government. In past debates, this is where you and I have always agreed. The problem is, you can't trust that the general populace is smart enough, and responsible enough to use firearms responsibly. They are an armed citizenry, but not a TRAINED and armed citizenry. They, the average Joe don't have the ablity to make split-second decisions about killing.

And of note, the crime rate in all NON RTC states between 1992 and 1997, the violent crime rate dropped by 24.8% in states enforcing strict concealed carry laws and no-issue laws compared to an 11.4% decline in states with lax or weak concealed carry laws.

(Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reports 1997. )

In many of the non RTC states, the percentage of dropping was much higher. And the Crime index drop was an even bigger percentage than the violent crime numbers.

Here's a very well done chart showing and illustrating the above stats. This one is specifically for NY, but at the bottom you can go to all of the Non RTC states and check out there stats, ie Cali etc.
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/nycrime.htm

Bigger drops in crime index happened in non RTC states, than ever did in most RTC states. So, how do you explain that? Who knows? All I'm saying is, the crime rate ebbs and flows, and and armed citizenry hasn't changed anything. There are too many factors to it, other than to say we need MORE guns in the hands of your average citizen. It's laws, parents, poverty, education, that's where you have to do the work. It's just not THAT simple.

So, pass me the "NEXT" and I'll use that now. Hee hee hee. :lol:

 

[jeep90]

LADY, this is your decision but I would strongly disagree with a pellet gun. I will put it this way. when I was younger my brothers and cousins all had pellet guns, and we would have pellet gun wars. we were SMALL CHILDREN and the only thing that would happen when we got shot with one is it would piss us and our parents off. now if a small child would only get pissed off by this, imagine how a grown man will react. I think that this will just aggrivate the attacker and make it worse.
If you want something to reallly deter him, buy a 12 or 20 gauge shotgun loaded with "less lethal" ammo. the less lethal ammo is a sandbag will a pepper spray type chemical. when you shoot someone with this it hurts like hell and burns the eyes from the pepper spray, but wont kill him.

just dont expect a pellet gun to deter a grown man.

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

Jeep 90, Thanks for the info man. I will keep it in mind before I purchase anything. I wonder if it depends on the power source as to how much they hurt. Maybe someone else can tell us. I was going to look at the C02 forced air ones myself.

Open for info, anyone?

Lady

 

[jeep90]

honestly a series of paintballs shot out of a high power paintball gun to the eyes would be more painful/effective.

 

[ROade]

you can also put cameras on motion detectors,so as not to record all the time
Just my 2 cents
also invest in home security
Radio shack has wireless system that has motion dectors,door/window monitors,keychain remote,outside siren, it even lets you store 5 phone numbers so It can dail out if alarm goes off,then the person called can press 1 to hear inside your house.Like around $200 and real simple to install.No Wires !!!!!