Used Jeep Wrangler price suggestions

[Dracunos]

Excuse me if I'm in a wrong forum or something, so go ahead and move it if you need to. I'm trying to buy a Jeep Wrangler. The MSRP sounded great, and all that, but man.. almost 100 thousand miles.. six years old.. And these things are still being sold at almost half MSRP!

I wouldn't mind getting into 4x4-ing, if I can even affort it, but I'm not sure if I would be interested in that.. I'll probably at least try it, and with a stock Wrangler I hear it can be done on some of the not-so-huge trails. But I'm looking more for some advice on what a good deal is for Jeeps, how long they last, the long term costs for many people.. Things like that..

So.. Anyhow, I'm in the military and make an O.K. amount of money, but still it's a little bit above an extremely comfortable zone as for what most Jeeps are priced at. But the sad part is, I love Jeeps.. When I think of buying a car, I can't imagine what I'd enjoy driving around in every day of my life, but a Jeep Wrangler sounds enjoyable.. Maybe it's because that's all my mother ever really drove around, and I was always living with her.. So I'm intent on getting one at this point. She just likes having it, I guess, and doesn't really do offroading or anything like that. I could even be fooling myself and I may hate Jeep Wranglers, or grow to dislike them over time (since it won't be like many of you, who have one only for offroading and such)

There's one Sahara I like, with dual tops, a perfectly clean (almost too clean) carfax, single owner who claims she's always taken care of it and kept it garaged. It has high mileage, however, at year '01. She claims it's mostly highway miles, and I believe it.. Basically just because I have a feeling it's true. She's selling at 11k, which is under bluebook, and pretty close to Edmunds pricing, but many people are telling me I'm oh so unreasonable for even daring to buy a vehicle with almost 100k miles for even close to 10k dollars.. Am I just crazy? Should I just.. Ignore all those un-jeepish people, and do it, and deal with any maintenance and repair costs I must deal with, etc.. One of them is claiming that rebuilding a clutch is like 2 thousand dollars so getting a vehicle at that high mileage for that much is crazy.. I think it's a pretty nice looking Jeep, and it's a Sahara and such. Plus it has both soft and hard tops. I doubt I'll have an easy time selling that Jeep in a few years, especially once it breaks that dreaded 100k mile mark. Is this even a reasonable deal? Supply and demand doesn't lie, and I really don't think 10k is that much money, especially when I have like 5k in my bank right now after saving up just a few months (but after car payments and gas and insurance it won't be as easy).

Another Jeep I'm looking at is an '05, still under some warranty, with only 22k miles on it. It's an SE, though, and if it doesn't have AC I won't be getting it.. (it has the AC control knobs in the dealer photos, but does that automatically mean it has AC?). It's Carfax says two owners, but the latter may have been a mistake or something? It is about 15k, and I would probably spend 5k down, and get a loan for 11k or so. But I hear bad things about the '05 year, although selling it after a few years would be pretty easy, especially around here. Also, it's an I4, and has a few less things, I don't know if I'll miss all that, when the other Jeep above looks like it was taken really good care of, and will hopefully be reliable for a few thousand more miles, and has more power and such.. I don't know..

Another Jeep (sort of the middle-ground), is 11.9k, with 58k miles. It's a sport, '00, and has a nice little setup. A few previous owners.. This would be a no-brainer for me, except the fact that it is just old enough to not have enough of a history to know if it's been taken care of enough to be really reliable, and it's also not new enough to have warranty or anything like that...

As you may have noticed.. I have not yet test driven or physically seen any of these.. Of course if they are ridiculously trashed, or they feel bad, or have too many rips or problems, I'll take that as a sign that it wasn't treated really well, and take that into consideration, at least.. But besides the obvious stuff.. How much should I go by how the Jeep 'feels' when I drive it? Is that a reasonable sign of potential reliability? And also, do you think someone in my position should go more for the cheapest thing, or the more expensive thing that may save some money in the longer run? Or just go with the more taken care of and proven older one? Also, if I get the cheaper one, I'll have some cash on hand, and it may allow me to do some modding, and see if I can get into the whole 4x4 thing.. With the '05, I probably wouldn't do it until the warranty was gone..

I'm not really looking for financial guidance or anything, just.. Some knowledge based on people who really know Jeep Wranglers well, who drive them often and know what they are talking about, because I really want one, and everyone I know around here I don't think are very Jeep savvy, and I don't like the whole 'It's a bad deal! Don't get a Wrangler!!' things they've been throwing at me... So I wanted some honest opinions by people who really drive them.. I don't mind if you said the same thing, even.. And tell me the negative parts of owning a Jeep for my particular situation and needs are too much.. As long as it's someone who really knows what they are talking about..

Anyway, thanks for any replies, and sorry if this is the wrong place for this or something.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

First of all, welcome to Jeepz! Always good to have new members. You couldn't have picked a better, more friendly, more laid back, more helpful site. I know I speak for the group when I say I hope you stick around awhile.

As for your question, understand that it's hard for any of us to say with any certainty which of the Jeeps you've mentioned is a good deal, since we haven't really laid eyes on them. Any responses will be based solely upon average conditions and pricing of similar Jeeps. Pricing will also vary by geographical region. A $7000 Jeep here in Kansas might fetch as high as $11,000 on either coast. For the most part, from what you've described, the prices you've listed don't seem to be too far off the mark for the particular Jeeps you've described. I wouldn't worry too much about a Jeep with 100k miles as much as I would worry about how those 100k miles got put on it, how it was treated, how often it was serviced, etc. A well-treated Jeep engine will last a few hundred thousand miles without much in the way of repairs.

Basically, what it all boils down to is what is the Jeep worth to you? There's an obscure old adage about buying vehicles that says a vehicle is only worth as much as you are willing to pay for it.

There are a few things to watch out for when buying a Jeep or other off-road vehicle (are there really any other off-road vehicles compared to a Jeep?). Don't hesitate to crawl underneath them and get dirty checking them out. Look for large dents and scrapes in the skid plates, or bent skid plates, drive lines or other bent components under the Jeep. These are the tell-tale signs that they have been wheeled hard, and possibly abused severely. Of course, look for the obvious signs of fluid leakage from the engine, transmission, transfer case, and differentials. Open the hood, pull the air filter out and check to see if there are signs of water being in the airbox, which could signify that the Jeep has either been submerged or driven through excessively deep water and possibly sucked water into the engine at some point. Pull back the carpet in a few places in the interior and look for rust or other signs of water damage. It's generally best to avoid Jeeps that have already been lifted, unless you know who did the work and can trust them. Many times a lifted Jeep for sale has had shoddy workmanship done on the lift, and the buyer is saddled with a ton of issues ranging from poor driveline angles to over-torqued bolts to mis-aligned components. It's almost always best to either do the mods yourself, or have them done by a reputable shop you know and trust.

These are just a few of the things to look out for when pricing a Jeep. As I said earlier, it's difficult to tell you exactly what a Jeep is worth without seeing it and comparing it to similar Jeeps in that particular geographical area, but hopefully it will give you a fair idea.

Again, Welcome to Jeepz! Keep us posted on what you do, and if you have any more questions, don't hesitate to ask, we'll all do what we can to help you out. 8)

 

[Dracunos]

Well, I don't personally think it'll make any difference in terms of any suggestions any might have, but just in case it does, here's some links to the Jeeps..
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...=&engine=&style_flag=1&doors=&fuel=&cardist=8
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.j...&engine=&fuel=&doors=&style_flag=1&cardist=50
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detai...onal&paId=228007174&recnum=10&leadExists=true

I didn't like the weird red Sahara color at first, but now I think it's nice looking. : p

Anyhow.. As for the part about "I wouldn't worry too much about a Jeep with 100k miles as much as I would worry about how those 100k miles got put on it, how it was treated, how often it was serviced, etc.".. This is where I'm wondering how much I should trust the 'feel' of the car. I know I've driven some cars where I was seriously afraid the thing was going to fall apart beneath me.. But I've driven my mom's Wrangler just last year, which was a 97, and I'm sure it had over 100k miles, and it was solid. And she does treat it well, although it did recently have to change engines. Around here, it seems almost impossible to find anyone who has kept service records, or physical proof of any maintenance, and this '01 Jeep she claims to have taken good care of it and such.

 

[KrazyJeeper]

Just going by what you have told here, I would have to go with the 11,900 sport. This may tick some people off here, but I am talking from experience and if you think about doing any mods in the future, stay away from the 4 cylinder. I loved mine, but you loose your 5th gear unless you regear. The Sahara and sport aren't much different from each other and your paying 2,000 more for half the miles. Just my opinion, but if I had to make the choice, take the sport. You can always drive it down to a mechanic and have them check it out also if you choose to before you buy. Welcome to Jeepz and where are you stationed?

 

[Dracunos]

Just going by what you have told here, I would have to go with the 11,900 sport. This may tick some people off here, but I am talking from experience and if you think about doing any mods in the future, stay away from the 4 cylinder. I loved mine, but you loose your 5th gear unless you regear. The Sahara and sport aren't much different from each other and your paying 2,000 more for half the miles. Just my opinion, but if I had to make the choice, take the sport. You can always drive it down to a mechanic and have them check it out also if you choose to before you buy. Welcome to Jeepz and where are you stationed?

Travis AFB. Near Vacaville and Fairfield. Around the Napa, Sac, San Francisco, Oakland area.. Any good 4x4-ing areas around here? I heard there's a few.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

This may tick some people off here, but I am talking from experience and if you think about doing any mods in the future, stay away from the 4 cylinder. I loved mine, but you loose your 5th gear unless you regear.

That doesn't tick me off, it just confuses me. I hear people say that all the time, about "losing 5th gear unless you regear". I guess it's because I'm a flatlander, but I've heard it from other 4-banger owners as well that say it's not true. I've got 115k on my 4-banger, 31x10.5 tires, steel wheels, 3.5" of lift, original 5-speed transmission and original 4.11 gears, and I can pretty much cruise all day at 70 mph on the highway in 5th gear. Now, in this part of Kansas we don't have much in the way of hills, but we do have wind. A good 20 mph headwind will make me drop to 4th, but it always has, even before any mods. But, I've driven a few 6-cyl Jeeps in the same wind conditions that I had to pull back into 4th also. Why? Because a Jeep has the aerodynamics of a brick. Back in eastern KS where my farm is, there are big steep hills, and I can take all but the steepest ones in 5th gear and pull right up them. So, take that statement about not being able to use 5th gear with a grain of salt. Personally, I don't buy it.

 

[Dracunos]

Just going by what you have told here, I would have to go with the 11,900 sport. This may tick some people off here, but I am talking from experience and if you think about doing any mods in the future, stay away from the 4 cylinder. I loved mine, but you loose your 5th gear unless you regear. The Sahara and sport aren't much different from each other and your paying 2,000 more for half the miles. Just my opinion, but if I had to make the choice, take the sport. You can always drive it down to a mechanic and have them check it out also if you choose to before you buy. Welcome to Jeepz and where are you stationed?

Maybe I should throw in one more dimension.. The '00 Sport is like.. over 50 miles away, and would take like over an hour to get there (up to two hours with San Francisco traffic), and that would be just to go over and test drive, then later come up with the check and buy it, then maybe come back yet again to finish whatever paperwork and such.. It's really hasslish, and definitely worth it for me, but I'd have to get a friend to drive me.. The '01 Sahara (that I'm somewhat sure was taken pretty decent care of, especially considering it has a perfectly clean carfax, although she may have gotten someone to fix it when it had problems), is right within this city, so it's a really easy and quick test drive and paperwork and such... And the close Sahara is a private seller, while the other two are dealerships that are both kinda far away.. It's hard to physically choose the seemingly worse deal when they are all pretty close, but the hassle may make it impossible to pick any but the really close one..

To be clear with the numbers, though.. 87000mi '01 Sahara for 11k. Cruise control, supposedly taken really good care of (at least the better chance that it was treated better than the Sport, as much as I can tell without seeing them), and both a hard and a soft top. (although I don't really have anywhere to put the hard top if I was to take it off..

58500mi '00 Sport for 11.9k. Red, so easier to sell.. Carfax isn't perfect, but it doesn't show any crazy amounts of repairs or anything.. Has a nice grill guard, ABS, wheels are really nice. Dealer warranty. (chances are it'll be sold in just a few days, though)

 

[KrazyJeeper]

Sparky, put some 33x12.50s on that Jeep of yours and you'll see what I mean. And I don't believe the 2000 Sport has stock 4:11s. Like I said, didn't mean to offend anyone, but that is the reason why I got rid of my 2.5 and bought a 4.0. Guess what, same year, same lift, same tires and the head wind doesn't bother me one bit now. Cruise down the road no problem, but not with the 2.5. Just my humble opinion.

 

[KrazyJeeper]

Dracunos, you post up a couple more post like the last two and sounds like to me you will already have your decision on which one to buy. Good Luck with your search and I hope you like whichever one you choose.

 

[Dracunos]

It turns out I couldn't make it all the way out there, and my friends were only willing to go a few miles out, so I sort of had to settle.. I paid a bit more because of the year and miles, but still less because it's an I4. It's an '02 SE with 57000 miles on it. I paid almost 13k for this thing because they threw on some bigger tires (mud tires) (the stock SE tired looked pretty terrible especially on a white Wrangler, I admit), and the sound system seems alright, and they got me slightly tinted back windows (soft top), and overall the deal isn't terrible, but I'm starting to see a few little things..

I guess a little part of the roof light cover fitting is loose, so the speakers mounted up there, when the bass is loud it makes a clicking sound that is somehow annoying despite the loud drive. I guess just replace that little light bulb fixture up there? How much would that cost?

Also, they didn't give me a manual for it or anything, but I suppose you can find that kinda stuff online nowadays? Or order it, at least.. Anyone refer me to something like that?

And the last thing.. Probably the biggest deal.. I think they filled the tank for me, and it still showed around.. 1/4th full.. Pretty low.. So I drove to the gas station, and started pumping, and after a few seconds it clicked.. Assuming the tank is full.. But still, the gauge is reading 1/4th full, and I can see that being a really annoying problem.. Maybe I'm being retarded and forgetting something, but.. Filling a gas tank always felt like such a simple thing to me.. I checked jeep.com, and it says there's no recalls for it, as I noticed some other Wranglers do have the gas tank display being bad as a recall.. Any suggestions, or a cost for repair of something like that?

None of this stuff is a dealbreaker for me yet, but of course I wish I could have mentioned it to them and paid less, or paid the same after they had fixed it all. I'm sure I'll find a few other quirks with it, since it's a used car and all, but at least the engine sounds pretty nice, and the transmission doesn't feel flawed at all yet. My friend who knows stick transmissions a bit more than me says it idles a bit hard, but I think that's normal for a Jeep.. At least, my mom's jeep did the same thing

 

[mud4feet]

Bottom line is you now own a Jeep!!!! I'm a 4banger owner, also, and I have no complaints. I love my Jeep, "underpowered" as it is!! I'm unlucky enough to have the 2.4L (I believe '03 was when they switched) which means you have the 2.5L.............amazing how much difference that .1 liter makes! Mudwoman's YJ has the 2.5, and I've always felt quite a difference in the power............if you need a fifth gear, I have one available - I RARELY use it!! But, like I said, I have no complaints. My 4banger just loves runnin' at around 3K rpms....she'll run happily all day long! 106,000 miles and counting - still on the factory clutch, one brake change on the front (only because I had a caliper go bad), no other problems other than the usual "maintance" things......O2 sensors, plugs and wires a couple times, that's about it!

The problems you mention seem to me to be minor things - nothing compared to what's ahead (lift, gears, tires, lockers, etc, etc!!!!!). Welcome to the obsession!!!!!!!