Is an Axle upgrade really necessary??

[Joopin]

I have delayed my SOA project once again when I decided I wanted 35s under my YJ. This started my hunt for a Dana 44 rear to put in place of my D35 since I heard that the D35 breaks often when running 35 inch tires.
I have been researching the D44 swap, along with other axle swaps (8.8, 9", etc.) and the D44 applealed to me because of the WMS length is wider than 60 rather than narrower like others.
I also planned on just swapping out the rear axle and not the front since my research led me to believe that the D30 can handle 35s and it will be MUCH less money to spend.
So now that I found the type of D44 I wanted out of a Wagoneer, I came to find out today that the lug pattern is different (5 on 6) than the D35 or D30 (5 on 4). I don't want to run around with different lug patterns in case I get a flat, so that means I have to either switch the D44 over to the 5 on 4 or get a matching front axle with the same lug pattern. BOTH are projects I didn't plan on and don't really have the time or money to do.
Now I ask myself, all this just to run 35" tires? 33s will most likely look good under an SOA lift. Or could I run the 35s anyways on the stock axles and risk it? Do they only break when offroading? Offroad to street right now for my YJ is about 20:80... I plan on evening that out some but who knows when.
Sorry about the long post, just venting and wondering if anyones has any thoughts on my dilemma. I seem to be making things harder for myself here!

 

[jeepinstien]

you can run 35's on stock axels. Breakage happens when offroading and under serious load. If your not planing on using fully locked axels with big lugged tires (swampers) and running the Rubicon don't sweat it.
If you decide to use the 44 you can always have the axels redrilled to a 5 lug pattern.

 

[Utah_jeepster]

I run a dana 44 in my rear with 5 on a 4.5 lug pattern. It is a factory style of D44. You can find D44's front and rear in some bone yards off Rubicons or you can order it from a local 4x4 shop that way.

I run 35' MTR's and I am hard locked with a detriot locker in the rear end.
99% of my off roading is mainly on slick rock type of trails. My front is still a D30 and it has been running 35's and a soft lockers for 2 years now with no problems(please note I am extra carfule with it).

Most rock crawlers go to the D44's for there strength with bigger axle tubes your axle shaft is larger in diameter and can take the greater stress you put on them with rocks crawling.
When you spin an axle (I.E. tire) in the air and land it on a rock the force can shear U-Joints or even shear and axle with 35's since the tire diameter and weight are more than the axle was designed for.
If you feel that you might get into this type of off roading then a D44 rear will be in your cards.

The cheapest and easyest front D44 axle is off old wagoneers and scouts but you will face the same problem of going to a 5 on a 5.5 bolt pattern since most of those had manual hubs.
If your like me and not wanting to change your bolt pattern your going to have to bite the bullet and custom order a D44 with the 5 on4.5 Bolt pattern. but expect to pay 2100+ since your going to want to change out your front knuckles to a larger diameter rod ends.

All and all changing your axles to a stronger axle is money well spent.

 

[Snitty]

ford 8.8 my man... its the way... yeah, its a little narrow... but it is really strong, and it has the right bolt pattern... if you want to go with the 44s... you can weld in the holes, and redrill them at the right pattern

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Get the Ford 8.8 and run .75" or 1" wheel spacers on each side.

Or get the Waggy front D44, it will keep the lug pattern the same and you'll be doing the same amount of work since you had planned a SOA.

YJ's are 5 on 4.5" lug.

 

[Joopin]

Well how would I go about making the lug pattern on a D44 or 8.8 5 on 4.5? If it's not a big deal then I may think about it. But right now I have been thinking of just going for the 35s anyway on stock axles. Then I can do all the work on a D44 before I put it in, then switch it over.

Any offroading that I do is in the mud, never been on the rocks. And the tires I am getting don't have huge lugs, (Parnelli Jones Dirt Grips) So I think I should be okay for a while.

Hey Utah, what do you mean by "hard locked", I am stll unfamiliar with the lockers and stuff.

Thanks for all the sugesstions and thoughts guys!

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

The 8.8 already has the 5 on 4.5" lug pattern, so no modification needed there. Only downside to an 8.8 is that it's slightly narrower, and that's no problem because it's not much of a difference. Easily made up for with wheel spacers if you want.

Harder to find is a rear D44 from the '87 to '89 XJ and the metric ton MJ. These have the same lug pattern and width as the D35.

 

[Utah_jeepster]

Wrangler Sport Info

Hey Utah, what do you mean by "hard locked", I am stll unfamiliar with the lockers and stuff.
quote]
Hard locked it a term I was told once that means the locker keeps both tires spinning at the same time no matter what. and there is no way to disengage it like an ARB can. Thus when I drive on the street and make a turn I get what is called tire churp as the inside tire turns as a slower speed and the outside is drugged in its arc around the corners. This is very hard on the tires, but in off roading this is a good thing since my rear end will always be locked even if I loose my on-board compressor.
I have a detroit locker in the rear and my future plans is to have an D44 in front with an ARB (the reason for the compressor).
The reason is that I can un-lock the front axle from the cock-pit to make some of the very tight turns that I travle on and re-lock the front again without ever leaving my seat.
But my case is special and that I am a pure rock hound, the biggest mud holes I see are in the pics for everyone back east or back behind the local DQ when they wash the car port...heheheheh

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

To me, hard locked is a spool or a Lincoln Locker, as even a Detroit is designed to unlock on turns.

Generally you have:

• Open differential
  Limited Slip
  Locker
  Spool

 

[jeepinstien]

torn seat?

Ever here an older detroit locker unlock in a turn on dry ground?
It sounds like an axel breaking.

 

[Joopin]

Ahhh, I was unaware that there was a D44 with the same length and lug pattern as my 35... I didn't know that the 8.8 was the same pattern either. I will check that junkyard for those rears now... maybe I'll get lucky. I am just jonesin to get this lift done! But it will be worth the wait to do it right the first time.

Now that you mention the locker thing, I do remember the locked rears, I never heard them called "hard locked" before... I was going to get a limited slip for my mustang back before I hit the deer... Can I put a limited slip in an old D44 if I ever find one? Is it difficult to do? I'm thinking waaay too far ahead here.
Thanks again.

Oh and just to make sure, is the XJ the grand cherokee or "plain 'ol" cherokee?

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

XJ is the squared off plain ole Cherokee.

XJ or MJ D44's are rare, but they are out there, just waiting to be found. Helps if there aren't too many Jeepers in your area that have already scoured all the yards for them.

A limited slip or full detroit will require setting up the gears on the new carrier, not a problem if you have to regear anyway. If you don't need to regear, best to use a lunchbox locker, mini-spool, or weld the spiders to save labor and much $$ :twisted:

 

[Joopin]

Thanks for the axle idea Bounty!
I found a D44 out of an '89 XJ complete for $400 bucks right here in Jersey, good deal? Yeah why not, I'll try to talk em down but I'm just glad I found a D44 I don't have to modify. Now I get to run those 35s! SWEEEEET. Thanks again guys for your input!