A question of morals

[TwistedCU]

The assumptions are that the movie "Promotes" homosexuality, yet nobody has seen it. Why is it that it promotes?

I never used the word "promotes". I used the word "glorifies".

You tryin' tell me it don't do dat :?:

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Digging through several of the 661,000 English pages found in that search,

Dang, I knew if I held out long enough I'd get you to waste a bunch of time for nothing!!!!!:lol: :funny: :rofl: :razz:

This has been most enjoyable!! It's hilarious to see what lengths you'll go to to prove that you're right!!!urple: Thanks for the amusement. See you next time a hot topic pops up!!!urple: urple:

 

[southtj]

Dang, I knew if I held out long enough I'd get you to waste a bunch of time for nothing!!!!!:lol: :funny: :rofl: :razz:

This has been most enjoyable!! It's hilarious to see what lengths you'll go to to prove that you're right!!!urple: Thanks for the amusement. See you next time a hot topic pops up!!!urple: urple:

So....by your lack of response to TC's post, I'm guessing that you are in agreement that there is no proof for your position, Sparky? Most know that it is just a theory. You've been asked over and over to show some proof and the above quote is all you've given. Very mature.

 

[antsinmypants]

I dont understand the big deal with this.

Its their dissicion and its not hurting anyone. Like really, how is this hurting you. so you dont "approve" of it. theres a lot of things i dont approve of. but being gay isnt one of them. i have to agree with sparky on this. i dont think its by choice, and somone back there said they can choose to not give into temptation. but why. if you had the chance to go free trip to where ever you want to go in the world for free, would you go? falling in love has got to be somthing everyone wants and i dont think anyone should feel obligated to miss that chance. at least if they arnt hurting anyone or expoiting anyone.

and besides kissing a girl is just like kissing a guy, truth be told i know by experience

*i'm not a lesbian and i'm not even bisexual, me and my friend jessica just kiss when we drink. it turns our b/fs on and it gets other people to buy us drinks (girls and guys)

 

[Utah_jeepster]

Five days and 64 posts later some some says its ok to have an alternative life style.
Not too shabby people...
First off this has been very interesting to read. I have enjoyed your arguments to the pro's and cons of an alternative life style. The words morals, sin, and natures way has been thrown across the screen and no has killed any one... yet. I am impressed!
First off there is nothing we can say or do to change those wishing to live in an alternative life style. Everyone of us has to form our own opinion about it.
We can cast our votes if the issue comes up on a ballot. But that is it.

As far as I can see this isn't the issue...to me of course.
The issue is when does a private citizen have the right to impose his or her moral values on me?
Yes I am boycotting Larry H Millers establishments, not because he hates gays, lesbians or the color green for all that matters. Its because he deems himself Utah's knight in shiny armor and will protect us hapless boys and girls from seeing two people in a loving relation. It doesn't matter that there both male. There frigging adults for gods sake! If they want to swap spit behind closed doors let them it isn't hurting me.

What I see is one person censoring what I can and can not see.
What I see pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions because they oppose birth control!
What I see doctors refusing to do vasectomy's or tubule litigation because self sterilization is wrong in there eyes!
What I was asking way back then at post #1 was when does somebody have his or her right to impose there morals on you?

We all know the theory of economics, if you don't like what you see in one store go to another and buy what you want.
But what if...what if you don't have a choice? What if he or she is the only Doctor in town? Pharmacists? Movie theater owner?

P.S. I came to my own conclusions about some one living a alternative lifestyle. A close family member that is gay. I don't have to like it nor do I wish to see that person making out and I have told him that. But if I wish to keep in contact I have to accept him and his partner and I do. Am I compromising my moral values? No what he does in my house is my rules...what he does behind closed doors in his...is his.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

So....by your lack of response to TC's post, I'm guessing that you are in agreement that there is no proof for your position, Sparky? Most know that it is just a theory. You've been asked over and over to show some proof and the above quote is all you've given. Very mature.

Yes, I know there is no hard scientific proof that it is genetic. There are more articles on both sides of the genetic issue than I could read in a lifetime, but neither side shows any real proof that it is or isn't a genetic trait, simply theories, as TC said.

Why go through all of this? Because I'm bored with all the crap rhetoric around here, and the lengths some people will go to in order to show that they are all-knowing and that their opinion is always the right opinion to have. I threw the bait out in the 17th post to the subject on the first page, knowing full well who would bite and prove their infinite desire to be superior:

Science has already proven beyond a doubt that homosexuality is not an acquired trait as some believe, rather a genetic "defect", for lack of a better word.

Who will be first to post a link to contradict that comment about science? We could post links all day long from both sides, but that is my belief from what I have read, and yes, I have read both sides of that argument. The "Gay by Choice" argument doesn't hold water, so let's not get into that debate again.

Actually, I'm surprised it took TC 42 posts before he actually posted any links at all to support his ego, errr, ummm...opinion.urple: I think he's slipping!:lol:

It just never ceases to amaze me what lengths people will go to in order to persuade someone that they are always right and only their opinions matter. For those of you who took the bait hook, line, and sinker, I thank you for breaking the boredom and monotony of an otherwise dismal and uneventful few days! God I love being an arsehole!!!urple: Look how far off the original topic I was able to pull you!! As I understand it, Ute's question was whether it was right or wrong to refuse to show a movie about gay caballeros, not whether homosexuality was a sin, whether it was a sickness, a choice, a way of life, or a cult that people can be "recruted" into (I gotta be honest, 90Xjay, that was perhaps the funniest response I have ever heard on the subject in my life).

You know what they say about arguing on the internet.....urple: urple: urple:

(for those of you who don't, PM me and I'll tell you)

 

[Snitty]

Mingez... your cowboy post had a great message in it. It was a great way to use other peoples' arguments against them. That was a great tactic. Though, being a cowboy IS a decision, so THAT example doesn't quite apply. But, it would take a very mentally blind person not to see the point you were making. Great work there.

As far as the showing of the movie...

I don't care either way, I didn't and don't plan on seeing it. There are not many movies I do go see.

Did he do wrong by deciding not to show the movie? Nope. Is McDonalds wrong by not selling hot dogs? Nope. They choose not to. I'm sure there was a point in time when they might have, but made the decision not to. Sure it may upset some people. I have a friend who loves hot dogs. Is his right to eat hot dogs violated just because McDonalds won't sell them? Nope. Hot dogs are sold elsewhere, he can go elsewhere.

I don't agree with his reasoning for not showing the movie. Then again, I don't agree with the reason Walmart won't sell the unedited version of Metallica's S&M album. I still shop at Walmart, and I simply bought that album somewhere else that did sell it.

I am not against gay people. I have no problems with them at all. I don't have a problem with a man who happens to love a man. I don't have a problem with a woman who happens to love a woman. I don't have a problem with a grilled cheese sandwich loving a stack of quarters. I DO have a problem with the misuse of the word "lifestyle" used when the topic of homosexuality arises. Gay is a sexual orientation, not a lifestyle. If everyone was gay, would it still be called a lifestyle? No. I like big dirty Jeeps, its not a lifestyle, its not even a choice. I can't just decide not to like Jeeps. Something about who I am just happens to enjoy something about them. Sure its un-natural, Jeeps don't occur in nature. Though there are lifestyles that are often associated with gay people. A gay man is often associated with being a fruity, feminine, sissy, weak, pretty boy type who likes to shop, decorates his house all pretty, designs clothes, and has a limp wrist. That COULD be what is often considered that "gay" lifestyle. Though, I know many straight men who live like that and I know many gay men who wear flannels, watch football, look like a lumberjack, crush beer cans on their head, rip phone books in half and talk about carburetors. Sexual orientation and lifestyles are two very different concepts.

When it comes to "gay rights".. there is no such thing. Nor should there be. There are on "straight rights". I am all about human rights, and there should be no special rights for any specific group. What applies to one should apply to another. When it comes to gay marriage, I stay out of it. I personally don't like the idea, but I will agree that it doesn't hurt me so I will stand back and keep myself away from that fence. I believe that one of the main reasons to get married is for conception of children. In my view of marriage, there is no reason for two people of the same sex to get married. Although, the government sees it differently. Married couples are granted SOME benefits, whether large or small, and that is the biggest argument in the issue. I don't like the legal issues of marriage. Other than monogomy and FAIR custody laws, I think marriage and legal policy should have nothing to do with each other.

Sin - Sure homosexuality is considered a sin in "the bible". So are many other things. I am a Christian, and more specifically, I am Catholic. Some here have said that "sin is sin is sin". Catholics (who happened to compile "the bible", PM me if you want to get into all that) believe that sin comes in various forms, degrees and levels. We believe that there are different amounts of pennence owed to God for different types of sin. If you are having a terrible day and someone asks how you are doing. If you say "Good, and you?"... You lied. Is that as bad as plunging a bayonette into their throat? Or what if you ask to borrow $50 and never pay them back. Or what if it was only 15 cents? Surely you can't say that all of those are equal in the eyes of God. I don't want to go too much further into this topic, it will get way too far off the thread's topic.

Back to the issue. If the man doesn't feel like showing the movie then fine. I install floors for a living. There are certain products that I refuse to sell or install because I don't like them for different reasons. The customers have the right to those products, but they are going to have to go elsewhere to have them installed. Maybe the guy is making a bad business decision. He could make more money by showing one more movie, but I think he knows that comes along with his decision.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Damn good post, Snitty. Damn good.

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

Since were all discussing, I didn't think anyone here had seen the movie, myself included. I was trying to lighten the conversation when I posted that question. I figured there was a bigger chance for a herd of big green donkeys to come flying through my front lawn.

Some of you are tireless in your debates, I just don't get it and what I do get is it is that your arguing is making my time spent at Jeepz not as enjoyable. I feel like I can't open a thread without some drama being there at every other post.

AND, when did it become cool to quote each other in our signature lines?

Are we back in grade school now? All this he said, she said and he pm'd me and I pm'd him and you shouldn't have pm's them. Good Grief.

Give it a REST!

I wonder if other people are frequenting the site less and less (LIKE ME) because they are tired of the incessant whining and pi**ing matches around here? Can someone PLEASE turn down the freaking testosterone? I THOUGHT this was a FAMILY site? I would hate to have my children learning lifes lessons off of these message boards, if so.

I am not taking sides or laying blame because I am not involved in this crap.

I just want to say that you all know me and my love for my Jeep, just as I know you and your love of your Jeep. Some of you have met me and vice versa. Why can't everyone keep to something we know best AND can get along about, like those JEEPS?

Heather

 

[Sparky-Watts]

AND, when did it become cool to quote each other in our signature lines?

Since I read what I found to be something totally hilarious, that's when. At first, when I put that in my sig line, I thought he was joking and it was hilarious. Then, when I figured he was serious, it was still hilarious, but for a different reason. I'll change it just for you, though.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Better?

 

[Snitty]

I have been away for a while and haven't had much time for the net. But it is threads like this that draw my attention to make me join in. It seems that some people may think that it is bad for people to debate. I think it is crutial. Here on Jeepz.com, we all gather with a common interest. And since we all live hundreds and thousands of miles away from each other, and since we have minimal or no contact with each other, our expression throught text of our opinions is the only diversity we have. Without such diversity, we would all think and feel the same things. That, to me, would make for a pretty boring community. Our debates bring out our individuality. I know there are some here who may have a conflict with a member or two. I'm glad. We don't live in a fantasy world, I don't expect Jeepz.com to have standards above the rest of the world. If someone doesn't agree with something or like something, I hope they are real enough to stand up and say it. If someone opposes that particular thought, I hope they are real enough to say so. These are the things that bring interest to the world. Diversity is beautiful. On the internet, where diversity is passive, nobody can see it until it is expressed.

I'm glad to be part of this community. I'm glad to be part of threads like this. And I'm glad that I got a couple nights away from work to join in.

Thanks everyone for giving all of us something to enjoy. For those of you who don't enjoy these threads, and say so, I'm glad you show that you are different than me. I just hope that nobody ever tries to stop threads like this just because people don't all think the same

 

[JeepMonkey]

I also think that these discussions are a great way to exercise our minds and maybe even expand some peoples horizons. As far as being a family site goes well, if you don't want your children learning the facts of life on Jeepz because there might be something questionable then you have the right as a parent to not let them get on here. Or you can always get on with them and view it together. That way you can teach them the lesson you want them to learn. I'm not saying your wrong LJF, but we have had these discussion a lot and most of us are all still "friends". I'm sure this statement alone by me will be debated, but that's another debate. I'll be there!

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Great posts, Snitty and Jump. I was going to post again last night, but the meds had kicked in too hard and I couldn't think straight. With all due respect, Heather, I don't see what the big deal is. I'm not dissing you, nor am I wanting you to feel hurt or leave Jeepz. Nothing could be farther from my mind, as I have a great deal of respect for you. But, as the saying goes, if you don't like it, don't read it. Simple as that. What did you think was going to happen in a thread titled "A Question of Morals"? A hugfest? I'd think the title alone would have been enough to let you know that you probably weren't gonna get any warm, fuzzy, jeepin' feelin's from it. Just did a quick count, and there are dozens of threads from the past several days that are still active, only one of them with any drama. So it's not like every thread here is a travesty, is it?

Please stay around. Read what Snitty and Jump had to say.....They're good peeps, and have a lot of good to say.

Next time ya see a thread ya don't like, open another and move on. Pretty easy to do, really.

 

[LadyJeepFreak]

Ya know what guys? Whatever. Like I said, too much Testosterone around here. I can see what is good for a select few is good for everyone.

Sparky, I'd appreicate it if you took my quote out of your post. Thanks for going from childish to even more childish.

Don't worry about what is written from now on. Like the rest who have dissapeared, I'll join the ranks of not posting here myself from now on. At least I am letting you know why, unlike some of the others but I am sure they left for much the same reasons.

Anyway, I could care less anymore about trying to enjoy this site because it really is pointless. I'm done.

Adios,
Lady

 

[judge09]

Ok, I have to retrac one of my postings, I thought the name of the movie was bareback mountain. Seriously.

And another thing, I am not a homophobe, but couldn't they have came up with a more discreet name for the movie, or was this intentional. LOL
OOOPs! KJ

I thougt it was bareback mountain for a long time too.

 

[judge09]

i'd rather be a cowboy than wear a dallas cowboys jacket.

I think thats actually in the Bible somewhere. Thou shalt hate thy Dallas Cowboys. I will look it up later, but trust me its in there. urple:

 

[judge09]

Statistically i'm sure that straight people commit just as much sodomy as gay people do. In fact in this months Glamour it says that 32 percent of women have had relations in a very uncomfortable place by the age of 24, and we're not talking about the back seat of a Volkswagen. :lol:

Could this be the first ever quote from Glamour mag on Jeepz.com? :lol:

 

[southtj]

Lady, I really wish you wouldn't let the actions of a very small percentage of people here (really just a couple) make you leave. It's really much more civil here than at most other places.

Don't go. But if you do, most of us will miss you.

 

[TwistedCU]

Yes I am boycotting Larry H Millers establishments, not because he hates gays, lesbians or the color green for all that matters. Its because he deems himself Utah's knight in shiny armor

Is it possible that he is doing it for himself and not to others? What I mean is that he may have chosen to not show that movie becuase he would feel like he was doing something wrong if he did? I would hope that is why he chose not to show the film. If that is the case, he is merely applying his morals to his business which is something that is disappearing in todays society.

What I see is one person censoring what I can and can not see.
What I see pharmacists refusing to fill prescriptions because they oppose birth control!
What I see doctors refusing to do vasectomy's or tubule litigation because self sterilization is wrong in there eyes!
What I was asking way back then at post #1 was when does somebody have his or her right to impose there morals on you?

In none of those examples, movie theatre guy included, is anyone imposing their morals. An auto mechanic can choose to not work on Saab vehicles because he doesn't like them. What's the difference. If we start forcing business do do what they do not want to then the government would then be imposing morals upon the business.

P.S. I came to my own conclusions about some one living a alternative lifestyle. A close family member that is gay. I don't have to like it nor do I wish to see that person making out and I have told him that. But if I wish to keep in contact I have to accept him and his partner and I do. Am I compromising my moral values? No what he does in my house is my rules...what he does behind closed doors in his...is his.

I wouldn't think that you comprimised anything.