Engine prep for fuel injection kit

[8177]

I'll start off by saying that I live in California and I cant pass the smog like it is. Lots of great help form our excellent community and history of my problems on a couple of threads.
81 CJ7 with a 77 258 installed. well the Calif Bureau of automotive repair allowed the jeep to have a 77 engine installed so everything smog wise is determined by the 77 engine not the 81 body. Somewhere along the line an 81 block was installed with all the 77 components. I just happen to be the lucky fella that got caught with the parts not working. Basically in order to keep this guy on the road i feel I need to install a Howell fuel injection kit. I have started the teardown, and printed the Howell instructions to see what I can take off. Problem is a lot of the components on the engine should not be there for a 77 and some are missing. To top it off i don't know what most of the parts are called. Anyway this is to help me and maybe someone else in my shoes later on.

I pulled the intake and exhaust manifold yesterday. The EGR valve was full of fuel. Thats not good. I was thinking I can eliminate this part but I'm not sure yet. Secondly the engine had a rail with tubes that ran down to the manifold with those fancy bolts with holes drilled in them to allow hot gasses to recirculate. What a mess this was. Two of the bungs were broken from the tubes and one of them had the broken fancy bolt brazed to the bung but it never was connected to the manifold. just the broken nut head brazed to the tube. What is this set up called. Does anyone know if it is an item from a 77 258. If I have to keep it I better start looking because it will not work as it is and i bet the local parts store cant get it either.

BTW I am going to pull the head too because the compression check shows i have 75 psi dry and 100 wet. Hope I can get by with rings only.

Edit: i believe that this tube is part of the air pump messs and i can take the whole air pump system off. If anyone knows for sure please chime in.


Edit 2: I believe this is the air injection manifold and I think It comes off with installation of the FI kit.
Jim

 

[8177]

I may have to disappoint Greg and get to skip the engine rebuild. I rented a compression tester from autozone. my neighbors was old and seen better days. I could not do a dry test because I did a wet test last night. Today with the rented one I got these readings all across the board. Turning the engine over with the tester attached and letting it hit 3 times I got 130 150 and 180. As in the pressure built up on 3 strokes. Might not be the right way to do it but it sounds like the rings are close enough. Would anyone agree or disagree.
Jim

 

[8177]

Just as I thought I was on my way to some easy FI kit install I find that the 2 (v) intake manifold I bought off flea bay is not what I have on the jeep. I bought an intake that is a single intake. It has a plate on the bottom with a wire going to it. What is on the jeep is a two piece bolt together assembly. now what do I do. use this one and buy a header or another exhaust manifold.
Jim

 

[greg92jeepxj]

I now see better your frustration somewhat . Ok , Cali wants an '81 engine smog test because they are calling your engine an '81 because it is an '81. Ok , not that it makes life easier smog wise , but now I know we throw out the '77 thinking. EGR valve drenched with raw fuel = leaking carb :shock: that'll fail in any state ! Ask me how I know , had to JB weld the fuel plugs on a GM Rochester E2ME carb , that's electronic (feedback) 2bbl.(duh,right?) m series electric choke. Sounds like einsteins theory of relativity applied to fuel systems. Lol. Ok , enough of me being a smartie , can we get back to Jim's CJ now ? Thank you . An '81 had an EGR , I think Cali is expecting one ? Those tubes on the intake close to the cyl. head are for the AIR ( air injection reactor ) if an '81 had it , again , Cali and CARB expecting it ? It was an air pump driven by a fan belt mounted by brackets with the a/c , alternator , power steering , etc. ( I'm getting queezy) .

 

[greg92jeepxj]

I'm actually happy for you as your poor back is saying , YES !!!! Joy and elation !!!! I don't have to pick up that 90 lb. piece of iron !!!!! It sounds like you are making EXCELLENT compression ! I'm ecstatic for you ! When you first posted les than 100 psi compression , I knew something was wrong with the test as how could you be boogieing at near 100 Mph highway ? Wide open throttle , compression tester in , crank 'til gauge tops out . You got it !

 

[greg92jeepxj]

If the smog crew has no problem with using a header , ( I think not ? ) you could get one for the 258 . I think ( not totally sure ) the 4.0 header is the same. Cool because now you have a welded in bung for you O2 sensor for the Howell FI system ! Wondering is that what the fleabag ( fleabay shipper ) sent ? A 4.0 litre intake ? That's all supposed to bolt up as folks are putting 4.0 H.O. Cyl. heads on 258 blocks and they bolt up . But I know you will check as there have been enough surprises this far . Basically , a 258 build up is with a 4.0 H.O. Top end , so that includes the 4.0 intake with header. But the 258 head is the same dimensions except the cooling port difference. Praying they let you use a header , you know the original intake/exhaust is integral and I don't know this after market FI intake not designed for integral use could work with an exhaust manifold. Might not clear and bolt proper to head. A moment of silence. Drum roll please. .

 

[8177]

thank you for your moment. I needed some quiet to reflect on my quiet journey into calm world of jeep ownership. Not!!! You think you are queazy!!!! i have to take dramamine just to walk by it. Of course if i go with a header it has to be 50 state compliant. It would be easier if I could actually talk to one of the Smog tech's. its almost as if they have a secret credo about , "Thou shalt not helpeth unless thine client spends many sheckles in thine shop". Now it could just be our small town but I'm afraid its the whole state. It looks like the throttle body would clear any configurating you throw at it So I don't think there would be a clearance issue. the flea bay seller said the intakes and carb was from an 82 258 passenger vehicle. Heck i didn't, and still don't, know what the difference was on 258 mainifold configurations. It will bolt up no problem. I know because I gave it the old hold out your thumb like an artist and compared the hole thingies. Its just the exhauset I have to worry about. I'm thinking rip out the sticker giving me the 77 engine, go with the 80's intake, get a CARB compliant header throw on the TBI put the Cat back on and be done with it. Adding a CARB EO compliant fuel injection will allow me to basically remove all the smog equipment except the egr and the canister. Its not working right either. cant wait till I get close to figuring out that mess.
Jim

 

[8177]

Ok I found some 50 state legal headers. they are pacesetters. CARB compliant just about 30 bucks more than a stock exhaust manifold. Any help with a 50 legal intake around 200 bucks would come in very usefull. remember CARB EO parts just have to fit. can be for 77 or 81 258's as long as it has a CARB EO Sticker. Man this state is like a kid in a doctors office. Be a good kid and you get a sticker. Hey thats what they have been doing. Conditioning the kids to be CARB compliant when they grow up. Need a part. Heres your sticker little boy. Gee thanks captain Smog tech. You are the greatest.
Jim

 

[greg92jeepxj]

I'm going with your plan Jim. They (CARB) do make you spend money , but I guess we had to have these items no matter what. If the misses is ok with a header as there will be a muffler and its not going to be any louder than a jeep cherokee so that ought to be ok . The cast iron exhaust manifold will wind up being a performance killer and a 50 states legal header will as we know breathe better. As long as these items don't break the bank and our "friends" at CARB don't have a problem , we know they don't to 50 states legal, your jeep will be as compliant as an XJ.
I am happy that you will not need all the goofy smog equiptment that is useless anyway.
Just to confirm how useless it was back in the day , Cali dosen't even require it being installed .
back then , these were all ill fated attempts to satisfy gov't requirement which was made up by CARB in the first place and now being said you don't need it ? Go figure , right ? An EGR and charcoal canister is easy compared to the AIR system which was pathetic and troublesome then.
i actually feel better knowing that these items are relatively simple and will satisfy smog with minimal,effort. It's as if they are admitting just meet them half way and you pass .
Sorry the old carburetor leaked raw fuel and killed the test , but the FI system is all pluses and I know the misses will be happy it will be dependable in all extreme and fuel slosh and power loss will never be an issue. The EGR should just go to a CTO or TVS , but yeah , we'll look,that up when it's time. Same for the charcoal canister , it will receive vapor from fuel tank and send it to intake and be controlled by a vacuum tube which is most likely controlled by the same CTO and/or TVS . That will be easier than AIR pump . Vacuum switch will be on the thermostat housing , I believe .

 

[8177]

Well I see it this way. stock manifold around 200. headers 227.27 free shipping. If I go with the 81/82 config on the intake I have to have a cat. Cat with install, Thhink they HAVE to be welded, over 200. CARB EO intake hopefully around 200 and then I don't need a cat

 

[greg92jeepxj]

Ok I found some 50 state legal headers. they are pacesetters. CARB compliant just about 30 bucks more than a stock exhaust manifold. Any help with a 50 legal intake around 200 bucks would come in very usefull. remember CARB EO parts just have to fit. can be for 77 or 81 258's as long as it has a CARB EO Sticker. Man this state is like a kid in a doctors office. Be a good kid and you get a sticker. Hey thats what they have been doing. Conditioning the kids to be CARB compliant when they grow up. Need a part. Heres your sticker little boy. Gee thanks captain Smog tech. You are the greatest.
Jim

We know its just a ploy so big brother can let big business pollute the air when they are trying to reduce smog in Los Angelos. What a big lie , but remember , they are all TRUE LIES . Lol

 

[8177]

As long as the gov'ner gives me my sticker I'm ok with that. Oh and the missus is ok with a header. Her 07 mustang was modified for as much airflow as CARB would let her and she loved the sound. Same with the 69 mustang I restored. No CARB requirements on that one and she loved the sound.

Now I just need a suggestion on an intake and the parts will be on order!

 

[greg92jeepxj]

I cannot be sure , but if a 4.0 intake , which has injector ports bolts to 258 head clean , that would do it . Only question is are the Howell injectors the same dimension as stock 4.0 so that the Howell injectors plug into stock 4.0 manifold ? I somehow knew she would be ok with the header on the 258 . It's all pluses. Any chance of posting a pic or pics of the Howell FI kit ?

 

[8177]

the howell kit is a GM throttle body.

 

[greg92jeepxj]

Yeah , thanks Jim . I was on the desktop . I normally post to Jeepz.com from my iPad . I saw the Howell kit and bookmarked it and was trying to research about 4.0 intake to 258 head for any surprises . The the CTO is vacuum but not thermal so it plugs into intake , not thermostat housing , sorry for misinformation . Just will have to look for ported vacuum for EGR .
The intake , according to jeepstrokers.com will bolt up but I believe they said your 258 has 7/16" studs so maybe a little reaming is all . Maybe a little grinding to clearance with exhaust which will be determined when header is received. As we would expect to hear , port matching ( which is normally the case ) for intake to cyl. head . Not huge worries , just a little more work , but almost a bolt on . Wondering if the 4.0 intake has more vacuum ports , I have a 4.0 H.O. In my '92 , will look for pics on a 258 intake and try to compare.

 

[8177]

There are more ports if i remember from my visual last night. But I can plug them up. Don't spend too much time on this till I see waht the SMOg guys say about useing an intake from a different year on it. I have placed a call and got an answering machine. No call back yet because i don't have the secret code to unlock the secret vault.

 

[greg92jeepxj]

Homeland security has gotten its hands on the DIY'er now . Your tax dollars at work ! Chalk one up to the Obama administration . I will try to adhere to your advice , but I am no different than you as far as the wheels turning , when i ingest something , I keep thinking about it until I come up with a plan . Well , that's always my hope. But thanks and will be guided accordingly.

 

[8177]

OK I called the smog guys. If I take the 1 barrel manifold off and install a two barrel I have to take it to a referee station If I stack up a bunch of adapters and leave the 1 barrel manifold on I do not need a referee.
i need to get a second opinion.
This is what I see hapening. CARB EO header, add a cat, swap to the 2 barell intake. or add a ft of adapters to get the fuel injection kito 1 barrel. Holy rotten jeep maintenace batman!!!!

 

[8177]

You don't know how much I appreciate the help. And I don't want to give up just yet. I just need to figure out how bad a 1(V) to 2(V) to FI adapter assembly will work

 

[greg92jeepxj]

As always Jim , you most welcome . If you are wondering why I follow your build so closely , I am jeepless as far as a CJ and gathering knowledge real world so if I am fortunate for the good lord to drop a loveable CJ in my driveway , I will have a bit more of a clue when I get a wrench on it too . One day , I hope for it to be my turn . Just hoping to fall into some money , but aren't we all . Until then , will try to advise how best for anyone to spend theirs for best bang for their buck . But I know we are almost there , blasted CARB and their neo commie dictatoristic laws , but lets get your jeep , I'm sorry , the misses jeep rolling , then we'll gripe. I know , if we had it our way , a rebuilt weber or motorcraft 2150 would be draining the tank already .

p.s.- I love the way I begin my quote , " as always Jim , if you decide to accept , the secretary will disenvow of all your actions , good luck Jim . " well , this is a mission . Lol