Jeep advice Please

[flienlow]

I have owned and drove a lot of things in my day, but I have never owned a Jeep. Lately they have been catching my eye to the point where think I may wish to buy one. My observation is that these vehicles seem to hold their value (obviously buying one is not an investement.) My motivation is to have a second vehicle for me that would be fun in the summer and winter. I want an actual 4x4 vehicle and not some H2 Hummer with Dub rims that will never see gravel,but with that said, I dont need a rock crawler.
I have a few questions that I would like to defer to those with experience.

1. 2 door or 4 door? My thought is that the 4 door would be a pretty gutless vehilce on the street as from what I read they are notoriously under powered. How do the 4 doors ones perform 4x4ing vs the 2 door?

2. Stick or automatic? Any insights of pros and cons of the two?

3. Now here is the most difficult one. Buy a new one, spend even more money to customize it, and then take it into the woods and tear it all up?
Or buy an older used one?

3a. If buying an older one....4cyl vs 6cyl? Stay away from the 4cyl?


I would like to hear from the guys that are out using these thing in the out of doors and well as driving them to work. Please throw anything else into the mix if need be.


Thank you in advance!

 

[LGR]

Welcome to the site.
I'd say grab an older TJ or YJ. I heard the newer engines lack in power. I think the 2 and the 4 door are just down to what you like better. Older jeep engines are great 4 or the 6, if down the road you plan on lifting it up go with the 6. Either way you can't go wrong.

 

[Brads94]

There's something to be said for fixing the older ones then tearing them up I would strongly suggest an older one over anything new. If you just want something to tool around town and the occasional trail ride, the 4cyl is fine. I have the 4 and am plenty happy with it, especially at the pumps! And no need for the 4dr unless you are carrying the family around. All a matter if opinion though. Either way you will be happy and you will be part of a whole new world!!!!! Good luck

 

[phall92139]

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Now, to business...

I'd look for something in the '97-'06 Wrangler line. Personally, I never considered my Jeep a people mover, nor did I want the added responsibility of hauling passengers off road (other than my wife or spotter), so the back seat came out the day I brought my '03 home. I enjoy the additional space to haul gear. Hence, I vote for a 2-door version. What you loose in vertical climb ability due to the shorter wheelbase is made up for in turning radius in tight spaces.

Since you mentioned "modifying" your rig, I suggest the 4.0 in-line six. Strong, reliable, easy to work on. Probably the best engine available in a Jeep. Not just knocking the 4 cylinder but if you do go with bigger tires or start adding the additional weight of body armor, bumpers, a winch, etc., etc., you will relish the additional grunt the six has to offer.

The debate between manual or automatic transmissions has and will go on forever. Purely subjective. I prefer the auto because (1) in the dirt, I don't need 3 feet to operate the pedals, (2) I find the overall driving experience to be more enjoyable, (3) unlike "street" cars, the Jeeps low stall, lock-up torque converter really enhances off road performance, (4) I'm old and lazy. There were some changes in transmissions during the '97-'06 time frame so I would recommend looking for either the NV3550 five-speed or the 42RLE 4-speed automatic.

If you purchase a used Wrangler in reasonably good condition you have the option of investing as much or as little additional cash as you desire. Buy it and drive it stock for a while to get accustomed to the rigs characteristics and abilities. Hone your own driving skills in a stock rig first then you will have a better idea of what things you actually need to do to enhance this. My only caveat to this advise is that it's never to early to start adding safety equipment. A full roll-cage, front and rear recovery points, a winch and associated equipment or at least a good recovery strap, Highlift Jack and shovel. A couple of small fire extinguishers. A good first aid kit. You get the idea.

For some additional input on this subject, check out this article from JP Magazine: Jeep Wrangler TJ Buyers Guide - Jp Magazine

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Well, don't know your name but welcome here to the site and the world of Jeeps. Before I answer your good questions, a few details. I wanted a Jeep since a child and seeing my dad all cool in his WW2 Jeep MB in the pacific in his photo albums that I still look at. I had my first one at age 11 as I was on a ranch in Montana and there, kids drove younger than that and ran machinery and drove dad's PU and bought their rigs about that age also. I had my first Jeep, a 1944 Military Jeep MB model. I've had 26 Jeeps now, over 46 Years. My latest was a total wreck I got for free and rebuilt over these years. It now has about $30k in it, has 1,187,600 miles on it, on its 5th inline 6 cyl. engine. It has been in 123 of the Earth's 195 nation states. I am a contract artist-archaeologist for NASA and fanatical jeeper and the Jeep, VEX, goes where I go.

With that introduction, I'm 59 now and love Jeepin' more than ever. You will find they are a wonderful and intriguing mark of vehicle. Again, then, welcome. Answers and suggestions below.

I have owned and drove a lot of things in my day, but I have never owned a Jeep. Lately they have been catching my eye to the point where think I may wish to buy one. My observation is that these vehicles seem to hold their value (obviously buying one is not an investement.) My motivation is to have a second vehicle for me that would be fun in the summer and winter. I want an actual 4x4 vehicle and not some H2 Hummer with Dub rims that will never see gravel,but with that said, I dont need a rock crawler.
I have a few questions that I would like to defer to those with experience.

1. 2 door or 4 door? My thought is that the 4 door would be a pretty gutless vehilce on the street as from what I read they are notoriously under powered. How do the 4 doors ones perform 4x4ing vs the 2 door?

If I was starting out and in your place, I would start with a 2 door used, TJ and then study all there is to know about it and then ease into Jeepin', using as a DD and using it 24/7 and see if the bug for these things bites. That way you can sell it if the deal is a bust. If not, you would have a killer rig to then ramp up to the incredible world of Jeeps. I would not start brand new and not a 4 door.


2. Stick or automatic? Any insights of pros and cons of the two?

Stick, manual, learn it for what it is. Autos have great advantages. I've never owned one, ever. I have ran very heavy CATs and rubber tired skidders while logging in Montana during college years and the slush box as they are called had great advantage over manual transmissions. I just am so retro that I never had one in a Jeep.

3. Now here is the most difficult one. Buy a new one, spend even more money to customize it, and then take it into the woods and tear it all up?
Or buy an older used one?

3a. If buying an older one....4cyl vs 6cyl? Stay away from the 4cyl?

Buy used, its cheaper, and you might not like this world and that way you don't have a ton into it. If not, they evolve and are NOT a car. They are a very specialized rig and are made to be changed and added onto. Remember, my DD is a 1983 CJ7 that was a total. It has been and is my DD. So, go into it as cheap as possible. You can always bring it up to speed or modified as you see fit if this world bites as does most of us. Get the IL 258 6, if possible. Do not mess with the 4 banger at all.

I would like to hear from the guys that are out using these thing in the out of doors and well as driving them to work. Please throw anything else into the mix if need be.


Thank you in advance!

There you go. Others will differ but that is my input. Here is my Jeep--and forgive me from all the rest for these repeat photos, but wanted to show our new member my Jeep for an example.

VEX

....Behold, what cometh for you. Hat is tipped,

Robert

 

[redneckpyrate]

Welcome to the forum. I have to agree with everyone. Number of doors and transmission are personal preference. I have always preferred the tried and true CJ7. I currently own a 77 with the 6 and a 4 spd manual. I think the 6 is the best motor ever put in a Jeep. Only you will know which Jeep you want. Drive a few different models and then decide. Happy Jeepin.

 

[superj]

i have only owned inline 6 cylinder automatic wranglers but there is a reason. no cup holders. if you want to hold your drink and drive, you need to not be kicking your feet around on the pedals, ha ha ha.

just playing, i have only owned auto jeeps with 6 cylinders but it is because i specifically looked for this set up. coming from sports cars, i tired of shifting all hte time and since i do haul two kids and a wife with me pretty regularly, its easier on long trips to just put it in drive and go. my wrangler is an 87 model, first of the square headlights. i love it. it is totally stock also. no plans to change that. i don't do any crazy off-road stuff and every other time i have been 4x4ing, my stock jeep went where all the modified ones went so whats the point of messing with it? it looks good and is dependable. all that other stuff is money gone so no mods for me.

anyways, get an older one with a 6 cylinder. transmission is your choice. i would look for a hardtop with full doors because it was easier to put them on and off then try and locate some later on down the road while dealing with a leaking soft top. both my wife's and mine were hardtop full doors with 6 cylinder and auto and we never had trouble with them. ac kept you cool in the summer and heat kept you warm. didn't need to yell to talk because the cabin was insulated and you could lock stuff up and not worry about your top being sliced by a thief.

you will love whatever you get though. i fought it for years and finally broke down and got hte wife her 93 and then i got my own 87. alot happier then fighting buying one.

 

[jfrabat]

I have owned and drove a lot of things in my day, but I have never owned a Jeep. Lately they have been catching my eye to the point where think I may wish to buy one. My observation is that these vehicles seem to hold their value (obviously buying one is not an investement.) My motivation is to have a second vehicle for me that would be fun in the summer and winter. I want an actual 4x4 vehicle and not some H2 Hummer with Dub rims that will never see gravel,but with that said, I dont need a rock crawler.
I have a few questions that I would like to defer to those with experience.

First off, welcome to the site. My first advice would be to ask yourself, what do you want your Jeep to do? You see, everything in a Jeep is a compromise! You want to have a great rock crawler? You can, but street performance will suffer... So the first question is, again (and expanded) is what do you want your rig to do great, what do you want it to do OK, and what can you live without?

For example, i built my Jeep with the goal of making it capable of 600+ miles roadtrips (I drive between San Jose, Costa Rica and Panama City, Panama every 3 months), but also to tackle thick, gooey mud. So to keep the road manners in check, I decided on 33's, but I do have ARB lockers front and rear, 4.88 gearing, tire chains, and a ton of other goodies. I also went with a hard top because it makes the road trips much more civilized than the ragtop, but the soft top is defenetly better for wheeling (less total weight, lower center of gravity, etc.).

1. 2 door or 4 door? My thought is that the 4 door would be a pretty gutless vehilce on the street as from what I read they are notoriously under powered. How do the 4 doors ones perform 4x4ing vs the 2 door?

The advantage of the short wheelbase Jeeps is that they can turn on a dime. I have no idea what type of wheeling you are planning for, but if tight corners are in the radar, 2 door is the way to go. Now, on the other hand, if you want more of an expedition vehicle, 4 door has A LOT more room to put stuff in. God only knows I NEVER have enough space in my rig when I go wheeling, even with all the extra storage capacity built into mine...

2. Stick or automatic? Any insights of pros and cons of the two?

I prefer sticks, but it's mostly personal preference here. Autos will have more torque from a stand still (because of the toque converter), but tend to loose a bit of power when at highway speeds.

3. Now here is the most difficult one. Buy a new one, spend even more money to customize it, and then take it into the woods and tear it all up?
Or buy an older used one?

I would buy used; the old I4 and I6 engines are very well known to reach the 200K miles with little issues if taken care of. Of course, if you went with 4 doors it means a more current model (JK), but there are plenty of good deals out there with YJ's and TJ's. Now, the more modern the Jeep, the more creature comforts you will have, but sometimes, the older ones have advantages. For example, lifting a leaf sprung Jeep is simpler than lifting a coil sprung one, but the ride will be harsher on the leaf springs. I would certainly go used, though, regardless of which way you go; that way you can save money and use it for upgrading your rig to tackle the great outdoors!

3a. If buying an older one....4cyl vs 6cyl? Stay away from the 4cyl?

If you can, go with the I6, but the I4 is NOT a bad engine. I have one and I wheel toe to toe with I6 and V8's and have yet to be left behind (even with me on 33's and the rest on 38+ tires!). If you want, take a look at this vid with some of our wheeling trips here in Costa Rica (not bad for a little 4-banger running on 33's, huh?):

 

[flienlow]

This is great stuff Guys! Thanks. We are away for the weekend visiting relatives and decided go to Jeep store to kick a few tires. While they had some used ones, most of theirs were new. (Understand- we didnt make a day of it, just stopped in for few minutes.) Anyhow the sales man was talking up the rubicon with the 4-wheel lock and swaybar release. IA this necessary? When I watched jfrabat's video, it looked like that jeep was locked up on all 4 wheels? I doubt I will make it to Coasta Rica, but Im sure i can find some mud in Seattle.

 

[superj]

no, you can do the mods that come on a rubicon to an older early 90s wrangler and still come out a lot cheaper

most people don't need that stuff. you can buy sway bar manual releases that all you have to do is pull a pin

 

[phall92139]

This is great stuff Guys! Thanks. We are away for the weekend visiting relatives and decided go to Jeep store to kick a few tires. While they had some used ones, most of theirs were new. (Understand- we didn't make a day of it, just stopped in for few minutes.) Anyhow the sales man was talking up the Rubicon with the 4-wheel lock and swaybar release. IA this necessary? When I watched jfrabat's video, it looked like that jeep was locked up on all 4 wheels? I doubt I will make it to Coasta Rica, but I'm sure i can find some mud in Seattle.

As a Rubicon owner let me say that it is definitely not necessary. Is it a way to go if you want something "pre-built" from the factory that carries a full warranty? Yes. Front and rear locking differentials (esp. rear) are very desirable and the NV241OR transfer case is a proven winner, and the various other amenities are there for a purpose but with the plethora of aftermarket parts for the TJ Wrangler, you can build your own "Rubicon" for a lot less money if you are willing and capable of doing some of the work yourself.

Also, you said you don't need a rock crawler. That is were the 4.0:1 transfer case in the Rubicon really shines. A stock Rubicon with an auto trans has a crawl ration of 46.5:1, as opposed to, say a Sport with an auto coming in at 23.7:1 (3.07 axle) or 28.8:1 (3.73:1 axle). However, that added crawling prowess comes at the expense of lower gas mileage (generally speaking). The 2.72:1 ratio of the NV231 transfer case is probably better suited for sand and mud running (although a lot of variables can effect this).

As for the lockers...have ARB's installed front and rear, check out Savvy Off Road for some killer, lightweight but bulletproof aluminum belly protection and bumpers, add a winch, Currie Currectlync® heavy duty tie rod and drag link system and one of their Antirock® Sway Bars for the front (eliminates the need for disconnects), and you are ready to roll. Suspension lift, bigger tires and beefed up driveline can always come later in the next phase of "Just Empty Every Pocket."

 

[phall92139]

Just thinking about your question still and thought it may help if you take a look at how someone built their TJ over a period of years. Stu Olson has a great web site with a treasure of "how to" information on modifying and maintaining a Wrangler. Take a look at: Site Index

 

[jfrabat]

I think a lot of guys here have answered your question; and yes, I DO have lockers in my Jeep (ARB front and rear, as stated), but obviously, since mine is a YJ and a 2.5L, it is NOT a Rubicon. Like Phil stated, what sets the Rubicon apart is that it comes very nicely equiped from the factory, but you can get all that from aftermarket parts for basically ANY Jeep out there.

Are lockers necessary? Depends on what you plan to run. In mud, my answer is most definetely yes. Now WHICH lockers to run, well, that's up to you. I LOVE ARB, and they are pretty much bullet proof (only the air lines are prone to get damaged, and they are very simple to repair even on the field). It's like you dont have lockers on the road, and like a spool on the trail, with the ability to switch from one to the other at the flick of a switch. Of course, they are also the more expensive and require an air source... Ox are similar, but they are mechanically actuated (levers that move cables). Detroit is automatic, but you feel it in the street... Then you have LS, and all the other lunchbox lockers out there. Take a look at a quadratec catalog and you will see what I mean!

Now, lockers should not be THAT high on your list, as other mods wil do more for you in the short term. I am talking about lift, bigger tires (MT is a MUST for mud!), recovery points, and a winch, for starters. Hi Lift, tow strap and a shovel are also pretty high on the list (even higher than the ones before), and are really not that expensive...

 

[flienlow]

Hey, thank you all very much for your time posting to this. I think at this point I may look (depending on the deal) for a slightly used one. I however, will wait unit the 2012 comes out with the new V-6, just to make sure I dont want to go all crazy stupid and buy a new one. This will also give me some field time with others to see what they have and really look at the mod that you guys are speaking of. I really like the interior of the 2011's they come with heated seats which will surley please the war department, come with (albeit stupid but..) arm rests, and also have a place for my lilly ass to put a Latte'.

 

[Robert_Stephens]

Not being a smart ass, "but, it has heated seats"..............

Long Range Desert Group, East of Tripoli, 1943

Daddy, Saipan, South Pacific, WW2, 1944

Me, Montana, 1967, Jeep #2, 16 years old

Imagine.

Robert