I'm moving to Australia!!!!! You have to read this:
- Thread starter Gone&DoneIt
- Start date
mingez
New member
I was mocking the notion, not agreeing with it.Well there's one thing everyone in this thread should be able to agree on
mud4feet
New member
Jesus....pretty good reason.
To quote a line of one of my favorite John Prine songs, "Jesus don't like killin', no matter what the reason for.....And your flag decal won't get you into heaven anymore."
Sparky-Watts
Banned
Amen, Brother Mud! 8)
Don't forget "Thou shalt not kill." I know I've read that somewhere, but I just can't quite remember where.
TwistedCU
New member
I know you don't think for a second that we should or even could go into those countries. I do not wish to debate the reasons we went there in the first place, as we have beat that one up on Jeepz, but the reason we must REMAIN there is what I am discussing. The terrorist organizations and those countries are all supporting and are the body of the insurgents we fight. They have used us being there as an oppurtunity to bring the fight to us. This is a better scenario than having it here. This is the same reason going into other countries is not as pertinent at this time.
That said, if Lebannon 's recent elections and their people's cries for hezbollah to be more involved in their government follows through then Isreal will most likely begin being attacked more heavily again and that will be another arena.
Why not in 1776? They weren't terrorizing us on our own soil then. Now they have.
As for protecting the Iraqis, I think most people would have known I meant the non-insurgent Iraqi citizens and their elected DEMOCRATIC government. They would not last long at this point with all the aggressors in the region.
Sparky-Watts
Banned
Yes, I remember Vietman, as well as Viet Nam. In fact, I've been thinking more and more about Viet Nam lately as I read about the war we are losing in Iraq. But, what does that have to do with the rest of your post? I don't understand.:?
TwistedCU
New member
Jesus wants me to tolerate the murdering of innocent men, women, and children? He wants me to tolerate the raping of women that do not obey islamic law and tradition? I think not.
If you saw a man who was a known rapist and killer on the street, and knew he intended to repeat his crimes, you knew he had dedicated his life to them and would die attempting to carry those crimes out would you tolerate that?
Do you think that it would be pleasing to God to turn a blind eye to it only to allow it to continue? I think not.
90Xjay
New member
Did you read Luke 22:36-38 also?
Jesus knowing trouble was coming to His disciples, told them to sell their garments and buy a sword for protection and self defense.
Find one verse where Jesus delt with a centurian and told him to walk away from his army duties.
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14) another verse that talks about self defense. In order for someone to lay down their life, they would be doing so while protecting your friends.
Thou shalt not kill... look up "kill" in the orginal greek used in the Textus Receptus, it means to murder, premeditated style. That verse does not imply killing in self defense is wrong.
Consider King David writing about defending his nation against its enemies.
"Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight," David writes in Psalms 144:1.
Jesus knowing trouble was coming to His disciples, told them to sell their garments and buy a sword for protection and self defense.
Find one verse where Jesus delt with a centurian and told him to walk away from his army duties.
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14) another verse that talks about self defense. In order for someone to lay down their life, they would be doing so while protecting your friends.
Thou shalt not kill... look up "kill" in the orginal greek used in the Textus Receptus, it means to murder, premeditated style. That verse does not imply killing in self defense is wrong.
Consider King David writing about defending his nation against its enemies.
"Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight," David writes in Psalms 144:1.
Sparky-Watts
Banned
Of course not, it would be a bigger mistake than going into Iraq and lead to more dead American soldiers for naught. However, that was our president's vow, but I'm not the least bit surprised that he has renigged on that promise, too. Lies got us where we are, and lies will have to get us out. But, suppose for a moment that what Gone&Doneit said isn't true, that Iraq wasn't the easiest scapegoat we could attack. (BTW, G&D, that was a very well put point, and I do believe you are right in many ways with that post.) If Dumbya was to keep his promise to the families of the 9/11 victims, we would be in those other countries. It would only make sense that since they are the ones supporting and supplying the insurgents that we would attack them directly. One of the most important phrases I learned as a paramedic serves it's point here, too: Treat the disease, not the symptoms. In other words, you must cut off the head of the dragon to kill the body. Cut their supporters off at the knees, and the insurgents will have no more IED's, weapons, or supplies. We are wasting time and lives by fighting the insurgents directly. We need to be fighting their supporters. But yes, I feel the same way now about attacking them as I did when Bumbleya made that empty promise....that it will never happen. Not so much because of the toll on American lives and equipment, but because of his relationship with the rest of the UAE. Not his diplomatic relationship with them so much as his personal relationship with them. It would also cost the US much more than lives and equipment if you factor in the oil supplies and the money the Saudi Arabia pumps into our economy outside of the oil community.
Including the US Troops......
Sparky-Watts
Banned
What part an offensive strike with cruise missiles and carpet bombing thousands of square miles is considered self-defense? A search and destroy mission in the streets of Baghdad is not self-defense. Sorry, those verses do not apply to what is being discussed here.
Sparky-Watts
Banned
Those statements are quite extreme and border on rediculous. Are we now going to keep trumping with more and more extreme statements that are way out of context? If so, I am finished here.:roll:
90Xjay
New member
I never said it did now did I Sparky?
remember this?
Mud said:
Amen, Brother Mud! 8)
Don't forget "Thou shalt not kill." I know I've read that somewhere, but I just can't quite remember where.
you agreed in your post with the notion that "Jesus don't like killin no matter what the reason"
What I posted was in response to that statement that you agreed to.
It is up to each of us to decide on his or her own if what the US is doing is or ever was considered an act of National Self Defense.
now, do you get it?
TwistedCU
New member
A statement was made about intolerance.
I asked why I should tolerate these actions by terrorists.
It was implied that I should tolerate them because of a song that referenced Jesus. You responded to that with an "Amen", and added a commandment.
My post was simply explaining that tolerating the terrorists and their actions is turning a blind eye to murder, rape, etc. If the comparison I made is too "extreme" for you, mayhaps it is because it is too accurate.
Anyhow, I refuse to "tolerate" the intolerable. Through some of the posts in this thread some of you are implying we should tolerate terrorism. I cannot accept that and neither should our country. Like it or not, they have proven they are more than a mere threat - they are an enemy after they attacked us. To ignore, tolerate, and allow them to regroup for the next attack would not only be stupid, it would be irresponsible.
Last time... regardless of the reasons we went to Iraq, we now face hordes of terrorist there and they want a fight. We could fight them there or we could leave. If we leave we will fight them anyway, but most likely on our own soil after they have had time to better arm themselves and better plan attacks.
Mark my words, no matter who calls for our leaving it will not happen anytime soon. Even if the Democrats win the presidential election in '08 and they have the political "hat trick" (house, senate, white house) they are not dumb enough to pull us out and be the ones to blame when the fit hits the shan. I suppose I could be wrong but if you listen to what they (the Democrats) are saying there's no sign of an abrupt pull out.
mud4feet
New member
Exactly. I simply said there was too much intolerance in the world. Apparently, that was taken personally. I stand by my statement.
Incorrect. You asked for one reason.........and I stated one.
Incorrect. I responded that "Jesus" was my reason, then simply quoted a song lyric. You took it how you took it, I can't help that.
TwistedCU
New member
I don't think it was unrealistic for me to assume that by "both hemishperes" you meant the USA and that I am one of those you were referring to since I am on the other side of this discussion and made my feelings about the terrorists clear. Take it personally? Nah. Feel the need to respond from my point of view? Of course.
I took it very simply... that you used Jesus as your reason with nothing other than a song's lyric to accompany it. I tried to use an analogy to explain why your reason was innacurate, but then 90Xjay did so very plainly.
mud4feet
New member
Why, yes, of course, I was referring to the Eastern and Western Hemispheres of the planet so, yes, I meant you personally. Very realistic.....my apologies.
Yes, I was quoted Bible verses about using violence in self defence. I fail to see how when we invade another country (I'm speaking of Iraq, not Afghanistan) that it is "self defence". I made a simple statement about the intolerence prevelant in the world and was drug into this whole mess because of it. I leave it to the readers to think for themselves. We all have our own crosses to bear. I feel I have stated my opinion and feel no need to defend it. I do not feel I have to pound it into anyones head that my way is the right way. I'm done with this thread.
out'o'here,
humble mud
Dorivin
New member
Wow atleast half the people on this page are on one side and the other on the other side...See theres no win win situation in this. Everyone is intitled to their opinion and like I said before, this is a topic that can not be won except if your a fool and think you have won before the battle began.
(hidden pun in that one for you people! HA)
Ok, Now what in my opinion is kind of messed up with what is said in previous post is, "Thou shalt not kill". Well ok, thats what first came about, and supposdily was changed when jesus came and said "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth," now to me, Jesus wasn't that much of a peaceful guy. Now, with the whole murdering/raping etc. thing, I'm sorry to throw this out, but you better look at our troops when it comes to that as well. Now we don't hear about it but I know plenty of marines and i've heard plenty of tales of war. Killing is murder, murder is killing. It goes hand in hand. I know marines who have shot people over there while they were on their knees and done things improper that they shouldn't have done. Now look at it from both aspects, They muder rape and destroy, The military has murdered raped and destroyed just as much.
(hidden pun in that one for you people! HA)
Ok, Now what in my opinion is kind of messed up with what is said in previous post is, "Thou shalt not kill". Well ok, thats what first came about, and supposdily was changed when jesus came and said "Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth," now to me, Jesus wasn't that much of a peaceful guy. Now, with the whole murdering/raping etc. thing, I'm sorry to throw this out, but you better look at our troops when it comes to that as well. Now we don't hear about it but I know plenty of marines and i've heard plenty of tales of war. Killing is murder, murder is killing. It goes hand in hand. I know marines who have shot people over there while they were on their knees and done things improper that they shouldn't have done. Now look at it from both aspects, They muder rape and destroy, The military has murdered raped and destroyed just as much.
mingez
New member
So, is the US supposed to be the woman getting raped in this analogy?
TwistedCU
New member
lol... yeah that's what he meant :lol:
Calling our Marines rapists and murderers... you have sunk to a new low in talking down our country. I know you never have anything positive to say about the USA and I have pretty much come to expect responses from you that put us down, but this one is too far out there and insulting to ignore.Dorivan said:
What proof do you have this takes place? Al Jazeera? Sure there have been a couple publicized incidents but they ended up in court marshalls.
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