Fighting a ticket - what to expect??

[Jason4x4]

Ok, here's the story.

I work for an HVAC company and have a company van. On a Friday afternoon in late July, I got a call from a co-worker asking me to cover for him at a job in downtown Baltimore. I was working off of the 28th St. exit at the JHU campus (for those of you familiar with the area), so I wasn't *too* far out.

He told me all I had to do was sit around from 4-8pm and wait for the general contractors to finish a changeover on an airhandler, and when they were done I needed to change 2 setpoints in the program. Essentially I was going to sit around for 4 hours and do 5 minutes worth of work and get 4 hours of OT for it. The only reason he wasn't doing it himself was because it was a Friday night, but I had nothing better to do so I took him up on it.

I had never been to this job before. Again, for those familiar with the area, this job was near the JHU medical campus downtown. I'm from a small town in West Virginia and don't know my way around downtown very well. I got directions from my coworker, and at 4:00 I left the job I was at and headed downtown. Now, the JHU medical campus isnt exactly in the best neighborhood. In fact, it's in a pretty bad neighborhood. As in, I wasn't very comfortable even driving through it, so I was doing everything I could to not get lost.

I'm following the directions looking for street signs. The next part of the directions says "Turn left on Washington St" (I think that's the name of the street, but its pretty irrelevant). I'm watching street signs, and I come up on an intersection. I quickly scan for a street sign and see that this is in fact Washington Street. I put my left blinker on and make the turn. As soon as I do, I see a cop up ahead standing in the street motioning for me to pull over, so I comply. He comes over and tells me that I'm being stopped because there is no left turn on Washington St between 4-6pm (it's currently 4:05). I give him my license/registration and he comes back with an $80 ticket for an illegal left turn and tells me that he knows it's bull**** but an elderly lady that lives on that street complained so they had to do something.

Now, this ticket also includes points on my license and all that other fun stuff since it was technically a moving violation. The cop told me that if I took it to court and explained the circumstances I'd still have to pay the fine but they'd probably drop the points. So, I've decided to take it to court, and my court date is October 13th. I've never done this before and I have no idea what to expect. Technically I'm guilty, but I'm hoping that since the cop admitted it was bull**** that maybe he won't show, or at worst I'll just have to pay the fine. I don't recall seeing a sign saying "No left turn 4-6pm", so I'd like to see if they actually have a picture of it or something to prove that it was actually there - but anyway - what should I expect?? Any tips/suggestions?

 

[TwistedCU]

Postpone the first time

Postpone the second time

show for the third.

You'll have a good chance that the police officer will not show up.

They bundle the officer's appearances for the first and second. They don't for the third. That's baltimore for ya. Never done it personally but the guys I work with swear by it.

Even if he does show, he's probably right that they will drop the points if you have a clean record.

 

[guysmiley]

In my haydays, I have fought many tickets. It all depends on the judge. Don't expect the cop to not show up, they will, so charges will not be dropped. When you reach court, ask to speak with the prosecutor. He will review your record. It will be pulled before court, because that is what they do when you plead not guilty. If you have a clean record, most likely you will get away with a fine, and not even see the judge. He will plead your case and tell the judge that it will not appear on your record but you did pay the court fines. This is standard procedure. Good Luck
Guysmiley


TC, I posted right after you, I have never tried the postponing method, might work, might also **** off the courts. Another method I heard is to pay the fine, plead guilty, but send $1.00 more. They have to write you a check for that dollar, and the case will not close until that check is cashed by you. You can keep the check for 3 yrs, In which time the points will go retroactive, and will be erased from your record. Havn't tried it, but sounds like it might work.

 

[currupt4130]

Try the postponing thing first. If that doesn't work, be as co-operative as you can be, explain the circumstance, (bad neighborhood, not familiar with the area, trying to get to a job, etc), and if its possible go and take a picture of the sign if its in an obscure location (like you said you didnt notice it, maybe its overgrown with a tree branch). That may help you out. Hopefully the judge has some sympathy

 

[dropseys]

As a police officer i can say postponing doesn't work. Our traffic docketts are the same days every month and they arrange our tickets all on those days. Alot of times they will call our department and have us called at home or in from the road if we are not in court so the postponing over and over doesn't really work alot, but i am sure some people have gotten lucky. Besdies, judges see when a case has been postponed and how many times so if you do that they know what people are trying to do and don't give as much leaniency. Me personally, there have been times where most of my tickets were in the AM on my day off and they scheduled like 2 or 3 that afternoon (late) and as long as i didn't get a hard time from the afternoon people, sometimes i would "forget" that i had PM court. Try to find that sign you didn't see and if you can't find one take pics from where you came onto the street up to where you were stopped, that should get you off scott free. Depending in what state you live, in MD you can plea guilty with an explanation and tlel the judge what happened. If you had a clean record they usually offer Probation Before Judgement. Essentially you pay a fine for the technicality, but the points are put on hold for 6 months to a year. f you don't get any tickets you won't get the points or ticket on your record. You might want to look into that if you're not in MD.

 

[mud4feet]

.........Try to find that sign you didn't see and if you can't find one take pics from where you came onto the street up to where you were stopped, that should get you off scott free.....

What I was going to suggest..........a picture's worth a thousand words, so they say..

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Yeah, I agree with Dropseys. Don't try the postponement thing. It may work, but it'll also tick off the judge when he sees the postponements. They know all the tricks, too, believe me.

Last year I got a ticket for 69 in a 55 in my YJ. Funny thing is, it was before any engine mods, into a 25 mph headwind and uphill. At that time, the little 4-banger wouldn't hit 60 into a headwind uphill. I thought about taking it to court, but it would have been my word against the officer. (Reno County Sheriff officers are the worst in the state about writing bogus tickets). So, I paid the diversion fee, which keeps it off my record as long as I don't have another ticket for 3 years. It cost more, but saved me money in insurance premiums.

About the Reno County Sheriff: several years ago, a buddy of mine got nailed for 79 in a 55 by a RCS. He was in the same boat as me, in an old pickup that would barely do 55. He was going to pay the fine, but a friend told him of his experience and suggested he pull all the tickets written within 30 days by that cop. As it turns out, the cop would lock in one high speed on the radar and keep it there each day, then issue tickets based on that speed. When people asked to see the radar, it was right there. On the day my buddy was stopped, the guy had written 14 tickets, all for 79 in a 55. Each of the 30 days that he had records for, the cop had written multiple tickets for the same speed, and nothing else. The cop got put on probation at a desk for 6 months, and several previous cases were overturned. I have a great respect for LEO's everywhere, except the Reno County Sheriff department. All of my experiences with them have been negative, whether as a driver, or even when I worked EMS and had to deal with them at accidents.

 

[B192734]

Good thing about Oregon is that there are no points. They just have your record as a whole. You can generally (as long as the ticket isn't something wild) just enter a plea of no contest, and throw yourself on the mercy of the court. You pay the fine initially, but every time that I've gotten hit for something they've sent a check back for about 80% of the initial fine. And no ponts on the lisence. Points from other states don't count against you either.

 

[redrooster]

What difference do the points make...insurance rates increase or something?
I've had probably 8 tickets in my driving career and it has never caused my insurance to go up. Then again, this is Alabama and I have had the same insurance carrier for 17 years. They have probably never even checked.
If you are worried about a suspended license due to points accumulation, then just don't be a habitual offender.
What I'm trying to say is: yes it is BS, but for $80 I personnally wouldn't waste my time fighting it.

BTW...it is up to you to defend yourself in court. Don't rely on the cops to have a picture of the sign.

 

[Bounty__Hunter]

Too many points could mean a suspension or revocation.

Most states cooperate in the non-resident violators compact in which points transfer from state to state. I'd have to check on Oregon, but states that don't participate are in the minority.

 

[Snitty]

I just beat two tickets in court yesterday.

A Motion for Dismissal on grounds of three different Constitutional violations was the key. That, and the lack of organization in the court.

I never ever ever ever ever waive my right to fight a charge. There are times when I have been guilty of a violation or two, but it is definitely worth working with the court system to get a break. Yesterday marked the end of an 18 month case in which I fought an unlicensed operation and a seatbelt ticket, neither of which I was guilty. People not fighting tickets is a big part of the reason that small town and local courts are as messed up as they are. The prosecutor, police and judge all work together. Yesterday was an Aerosmith concert just north of where I live. When I was sitting, waiting to be called into the "courtroom" made from an office breakroom, one officer said to another... "Hey, get out there and follow that Aerosmith crowd... Get the money".

Not to offend any of our members here who happen to be involved in law enforcement, because I certainly hope you are in the minority these days. Not many local court judges actually work in the name of Justice today. Most are working along with prosecutors, coaching the police to go write tickets. When most people get tickets, they "just want to get it over with". The more tickets written, the more pockets they can get into. They have more interst in protecting finances than they do of protecting the people.

Again, I am not intending to offend anyone here who happens to be involved in law enforcement. I appreciate the work you do. I just wish more officers, prosecutors and judges would stick more to the intended game rather than the evolved game.

I'll give up a day of work to go to a trial on even the smallest violation any day. If "they" won't protect our Rights, we have to

 

[dropseys]

I don't know about NY, but the money doesn't stay locally here so we don't benefit from tickets. As for fighting, I have no probs with people fighting tickets, but when someone knows they did something wrong and fights it it just ticks off judges. I could care less as I get 2 hours min OT for just showing up. Judges get ticked off big time, and so should tax payers. I do get angry when someone accuses me of lying because they don't want a ticket. I have nothing to gain by lying and wriitng random people tickets, so why would i make it up? I do know in DE they have small towns that have individual town tickets and they get all the money. But here we do not, and Snitty I am sorry you had a bad experience up there in NY, but we're all not like that and I appreciate that you explained why you feel that way. No offense taken.
P.S. I am from NJ and trust me I have had my fair share of tickets, one where I was given a ticket for 4 mph over and that was not knocked down either. The cop talked to me like I was scum of the earth and all i was doing was coming home from work at the boardwalk.

 

[90Xjay]

Go find that sign if you can.
Take a tape measure.
Measure from the surface to the bottom of the sign.
If it is less than 7 feet, you can get off. Many temperary signs esp put up to screw us out of our hard earned money aren't put up properly and aren't legal.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[TwistedCU]

Our traffic docketts are the same days every month and they arrange our tickets all on those days.

Baltimore city is incredibly disorganized, and postponing will work.

I will agree, they are not interested in issuing points, but the $$$? They want it. Don't expect the fines to be reduced one cent. Not speaking for the police, but the courts.

 

[90Xjay]

The last ticket I got was in Dallas. I was trying to show my son where President Kennedy was shot and instill in him some national history.
Instead, I got caught in a nearly impossible situation where there was alot of construction and 4 feet tall, temporary signs and I turned onto the freeway onramp from one of the "wrong" lanes.
There was a motorcycle cop sitting under a shade tree and everytime the light changed he turned on his lights and motioned about 2 to 4 cars over and wrote them all tickets for $80 each.
Instead of a history lesson for my son I got a lesson from the City of Dallas.
Thanks for visiting....:-|

 

[Sparky-Watts]

Too many points could mean a suspension or revocation.

Most states cooperate in the non-resident violators compact in which points transfer from state to state. I'd have to check on Oregon, but states that don't participate are in the minority.

Kansas doesn't have points, either. A speeding ticket for anything 10 mph or more over the speed limit will be reported to your insurance company and will cause a rate increase. That's why I took the diversion on my bogus ticket from the Reno County cop, so it wouldn't raise my rates. I hadn't had a ticket in 15 years until that day. Haven't had one since. I think I've only had 3 or 4 tickets in my life, and all of them came from the Reno County Sheriff's department. I was guilty on one of them for speeding, the others I am sure were bogus, as far as the speed they said I was travelling. I was speeding, but only a few miles over, but they bumped them all up to at least 10 mph over. That's just wrong. I've had friends that were stopped for going more than 10 over the speed limit by other county sheriffs or the KHP, and those officers dropped the speed on the ticket to only 9 mph over to save their insurance rates. Now that's cool. Of course, if you're doing 15 or 20 over, they won't do that for you....you'll most likely end up getting a ride in a patrol car, depending on the area.

In Wichita, Sedwick County, Reno County, Hutchinson, and here in good ol' No Hope, the revenue from fines goes directly back to the department. Most places in this area, anyway, get a percentage of the fines, like 75-80% to supplement their budget. Many of the small towns (Mount Hope included) keep 100% of the revenue from fines in the department, and a lot of those have only that revenue for their annual budget, which explains why so many small towns have such aggressive cops. If they need uniforms, vehicle maintenance, fuel, or a paycheck, they need to write tickets, and a lot of them. I've got a lot of respect for the Wichita Police Department. Despite the fact that fine revenue comes back to their department, they don't write tickets for the heck of it. They quite often will give verbal warnings to people who have no record. They use the revenue for public education and other community services. They set up "speed traps*" on the main east-west highway that is actually part of the city's territory, and also on some of the busier streets in town in an effort to slow drivers down, not to make money. They announce it well ahead of time to all the news media exactly when and where they will have their "enforcement zones", but still manage to write over a hundred tickets in an hour or less. It's pretty cool to see (since I don't usually speed and am not worried about getting stopped), because they'll have like 10-15 cruisers sitting on the shoulder of the road, and the guy with the radar gun will be about 200 yards up the road from them, calling out the speeds and descriptions. They take turns chasing them down, write the tickets, then get back in line for the next one. Pretty impressive, really. They've started doing that because there have been several fatality accidents in the city the past two years, almost all of them due to excessive speed. It seems to be working, because not only have the fatalities slowed down, but so have the drivers. Now in a 1 hour period, their still writing about as many tickets, but the average speeds have dropped. When they first started, they were writing nearly all of them for speeds between 75 and 90 mph in a 60 mph zone! One thing that shows they're in it for speeders and not money is that they don't bother people who are within 5-7 mph of the posted speeds. There have been several people who get caught twice in the same hour. They'll get them going east at 75 mph, then half an hour later, they'll get them in the same place going west at 75 mph! How stupid is that?!?:lol:

* Speed Trap is not an accurate phrase for what they are doing, but even the cops refer to it that way on their private lines on the radios. Officially, they are speed enforcement assignments. A speed trap is a local yocal hiding behind a billboard stopping people who don't see the speed limit sign behind the tree limbs or whatever. This is nothing like that, as they always announce it and publicize it over and over where they'll be and when.

 

[Snitty]

As for fighting, I have no probs with people fighting tickets, but when someone knows they did something wrong and fights it it just ticks off judges.

I wouldn't put up a fight against a ticket if I am guilty, however I will not waive my right to trial.

If I am cited for a victimless act that was done unintentionally, such as a few mph over the limit, or a tail light out, "inadequate" stop at a stopsign, answering my phone to tell the person that I'm driving (cell phone usage while operating a moving vehicle is illegal in NY), or any stupid victimless, harmless violation, even if I'm totally "guilty" of the charge, I will still not simply give up my right to trial. No member of any court has any reason to get upset for a person exercising their rights. The officer has the duty of issuing the citation. The prosecutor has the duty of pressing the charges. The judge has the duty of mediating. We have the duty of exercising our rights just as they all have their duties.

The ticket money around here is also not really kept locally. Though, an $85 surcharge on a $50 ticket is ridiculous. And that charge goes all to the local municipality. Earlier this year I did some work for a cop and we had a discussion about it all. He is put on overtime only to write seatbelt and cell phone tickets, innocent, victimless ordinance violations. So to be financially beneficial, he has to write enough tickets to cover the cost of his workday, with time and a half pay, and the gas he uses. He told me he writes 5:1 to any other cop in the city. All officers here will deny that they have a "ticket quota", but I was told even by the captain that every officer has an expectation and must meet it in order to advance in the force and not get reviewed. Bullsnot if you ask me

 

[dropseys]

They tell us they are standards. Funny how they don't want the public to know there are quotas. In my dept the Standards are real low though. If you can't write 10 tickets, 10 warnings, 5 parking tickets a month then you are not doing your job. You just can't drive without seeing blatant violations in theis town.

 

[Sparky-Watts]

I wouldn't put up a fight against a ticket if I am guilty, however I will not waive my right to trial.

If I am cited for a victimless act that was done unintentionally, such as a few mph over the limit, or a tail light out, "inadequate" stop at a stopsign, answering my phone to tell the person that I'm driving (cell phone usage while operating a moving vehicle is illegal in NY), or any stupid victimless, harmless violation, even if I'm totally "guilty" of the charge, I will still not simply give up my right to trial. No member of any court has any reason to get upset for a person exercising their rights. The officer has the duty of issuing the citation. The prosecutor has the duty of pressing the charges. The judge has the duty of mediating. We have the duty of exercising our rights just as they all have their duties.

The ticket money around here is also not really kept locally. Though, an $85 surcharge on a $50 ticket is ridiculous. And that charge goes all to the local municipality. Earlier this year I did some work for a cop and we had a discussion about it all. He is put on overtime only to write seatbelt and cell phone tickets, innocent, victimless ordinance violations. So to be financially beneficial, he has to write enough tickets to cover the cost of his workday, with time and a half pay, and the gas he uses. He told me he writes 5:1 to any other cop in the city. All officers here will deny that they have a "ticket quota", but I was told even by the captain that every officer has an expectation and must meet it in order to advance in the force and not get reviewed. Bullsnot if you ask me

You Keep mentioning "victimless crimes" in your post. When it comes down to it, any writeable moving violation is victimless until you cause harm to another person or property. In other words, driving 150 mph through a school zone is a victimless crime, until you hit a kid. Driving drunk is a victimless crime, until you hit someone or someone's property. Everything you mentioned will no longer be a victimless crime when it causes you to injure someone or someone's property. They are preventative measures to keep you from doing so. I could give examples of each and every one of them from personal experience as a retired paramedic, but the one I will pick on, and will always pick on, is calling not wearing a seatbelt nobody's business but your own. That would be fine with me, so long as you were 100% responsible for your own medical bills when you are in a crash without a seatbelt (same as motorcycle helmets). However, since that isn't the case, then I don't have much sympathy or respect for anyone who doesn't wear a seatbelt. When those people are seriously injured in a crash because they weren't wearing a seatbelt, insurance covers the majority of their medical bills. As a result, my insurance rates go up as the entire industry tries to cover the hundreds of thousands of people who end up with serious, often debilitating injuries, because they don't wear seat belts. When you don't wear a seatbelt, your chances of spinal injuries increases 300%. That's if you don't roll your vehicle. If you roll your vehicle, your chances of spinal injuries without a seatbelt increase 1600%. Nothing used to **** me off more than to make a call on a rollover with very little vehicle damage (many times so little damage that it was driven away from the scene) only to find the driver or a passenger or both dead, simply because they weren't wearing seatbelts and were ejected from the vehicle, which subsequently rolled over them. In 10 years as a paramedic, I never had to remove a seatbelt from a dead person.

So, you may see them as victimless crimes, but they are not always. If the cops keep writing tickets because people keep rolling through stop signs, talking on their cell phones, don't wear their seatbelts, speed, have unsafe equipment (taillights, turnsignals, brake lights out), or are just inattentive, then eventually, the smarter ones will learn their lesson before it's too late and put victims with the crimes.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm very passionate about this. That comes from seeing way too many dead people on the highways, whose actual cause of death was their own ignorance and stupidity.

 

[TwistedCU]

Sparky, I think you misunderstood what Snitty was getting at. He said "a few miles over" and "inadequate stop". I don't think he meant 20mph over the limit or blowing through stop signs (blatent disregard for laws, limits, and safe driving).

A legal stop at a stop sign is 3 seconds. If an officer is sitting with a good view of a 4 way stop, and someone stops for a split second then proceeds knowing well that he is the only car near the intersection then that officer can give a ticket. That, from what I gather, is the type of thing he was referring to. Very similar to what you described above. Although you feel they embellished the actual speed, you could still have been ticketed for a "few miles over". I believe that's what he was referring to. Victimless, AKA bogus!